Comment on [Video] BBC cuts away during pro-Palestine musicians Kneecap. The followup act Bob Vylan invents a new chant on live TV

• finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s definitely not a black and white issue for sure, every adult must serve in the IDF or face criminal prosecution in Israel, so saying “death to the IDF” and “death to every of age Israeli citizen” are basically the same statement.

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  • Scubus@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Seems pretty black and white. The genocide is massively popular at home, and I don’t see any armed uprisings.

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    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Prospects were good during PM Rabins term, the root of this problem is with corrupt people like Netanyahu. Killing every single perso on either side is not a solution.

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      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Hell no. Rabin was was also a fascist and supported ethnic cleansing. Zionism has always been a fascist ideology centered on the forced removal of the native Palestinians.

        Then-Israeli ambassador to the US Yitzhak Rabin confirmed the goal of the operation was the liquidation of Gaza’s Palestinian refugees via "a natural shifting of population to the East Bank. […] the problem of the refugees of the Gaza Strip should not be solved in Gaza or al-Arish [Sinai] but mainly in the East Bank,” by which he meant Jordan.

        palestinenexus.com/…/israels-ethnic-cleansing-of-…

        Under Israel’s then-defence minister Yitzhak Rabin’s orders, Israeli army commanders were instructed to break the bones of Palestinian protesters. Today, this policy has evolved to specifically target the knees and legs of Palestinian youth to disable them.

        aljazeera.com/…/stories-from-the-first-intifada-t…

        In his memoirs, which were censored by Israel but leaked to the New York Times in 1979, Rabin recalled a conversation he had with David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, regarding the fate of the Palestinians of Lydd and Ramla, writing: “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. [Commander Yigal] Allon repeated his question, ‘What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!’… I agreed that it was essential to drive the inhabitants out.”

        As an officer in the army, he led “Operation Danny” to capture Ramla and Lydda. In what became known as the Lydda death march, tens of thousands of Palestinians were expelled from those Palestinian villages. The military order signed by Rabin, the Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU) reported, read: “The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly, without regard to age.”

        The Oslo Accords were never about reaching a compromise, let alone a just peace. Israel entered into bilateral negotiations with the PLO in order to defuse and control Palestinian resistance, remake their public image to the world, and, most importantly, to codify and entrench the power imbalance on the ground.

        The framework of the Oslo Accords set in motion decades of failed negotiations and continued subjugation. The Palestinians formally recognized “the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.” In return, Rabin’s government neither accepted the goal of a Palestinian state, nor offered guarantees that the settlement construction would stop. The “Declaration of Principles” did not mention the word “occupation.”

        Instead of a Palestinian state, the Oslo Accords offered a limited autonomy, under the direction of a newly created Palestinian Authority. Israel maintained its control over borders, airspace, and waters. Behind the fig leaf of a “peace process,” Israel continued to expand illegal settlements, tightened curfews and closures, and debilitated the Palestinian economy.

        As the IMEU explains: “Today Palestinians live in a series of isolated ghettos in the occupied territories, surrounded by Israeli walls, military checkpoints, and bases, and settlements, under a system of racial segregation, discrimination, and apartheid, all based on the Oslo Accords.”

        jacobin.com/…/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-yitzhak-ra…

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• Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • RavingGrob@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So in your mindset, there’s zero point where killing is “justifiable”?

    I’m legitimately asking here.

    In a perfect world, people would respect boundaries, not start war, or genocides to further their own beliefs.

    What do you propose people facing extinction do? Parlay?

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    • Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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      • RavingGrob@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Troll? You haven’t answered either of my questions? Lmao. Not everything is black and white my guy.

        Again, I am legitimately curious what your opinions about this are.

        You can sling insults all you want. It doesn’t further your argument in any legitimate way.

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      • J92@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Jesus, those are some thoroughly piss-soaked chips you’ve got there, petal.

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  • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m sure no one here wishes that anyone HAD to die. Most ethical systems throughout history have a moral justification for killing, if the death will prevent further killing of innocent people. If it’s immoral to kill someone actively murdering children and about to murder more, are you saying it would be preferable to let the children be killed?

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    • Meltdown@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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      • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        You aren’t clever, trying to say we shouldn’t kill Nazis in a war against Nazis.

        This isn’t rhetorical, tell me why, if someone is about to shoot a child, and the only way we could stop them is through military action, what would you do?

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  • olafurp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    In a hypothetical where there’s a murderer with a machine gun killing children that will not be prosecuted in court then wishing them to be dead is pretty reasonable if you want the killing to stop.

    Not saying killing is moral or that people don’t have the right to live because they do but how else would you stop the murder if the government doesn’t?

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