Do you have any suggestions for upgrading the base kit? There are so many options.
Comment on If you had $1500 to spend
IMALlama@lemmy.world 1 week agoFor context, I can run prints on my 2.4 what would take something in the neighborhood of 4 times as long on my old ender 3.
I would put the difference even higher between my 2.4 and my old i3 clone, but I’m also running a 0.6mm nozzle and print with 0.9mm extrusion width / 2 walls and 0.3mm layer heights. My limiting factor is volumetric flow, which I’ve found to vary between materials (ASA = way easier to print fast than PETG).
mickeyripple@lemmy.world 1 week ago
IMALlama@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I assume you mean “what mods do I recommend out of the box”?
- Klicky. I personally think tap adds too much mass and klicky is great
- Magnetic panel clips to make it way easier/faster to get the panels on/off
- An under bed filter with carbon. I’m using “the filter”. Even if you’re not going to print ASA/ABS the extra chamber heat helps eliminate warping on large PETG parts s
- If you’re going to be going to be building a larger printer and print ASA/ABS skip to ACM panels. Also do #5
- The fridge door is so much nicer than the stock double doors, but isn’t something you need to do out of the box
- You’re probably going to run into wire breaks in the cable chains - especially the x and y chains. An umbilical makes that much more unlikely. You don’t have to have to USB or CAN to do this
… Off the top of my head, those are the big ones
AliasVortex@lemmy.world 1 week ago
I believe the official Voron recommendation is to build the printer stock first and then upgrade/ mod from there. Which is solid advice, the stock machines are very competent and don’t need upgrades to print well.
The only real day-1 upgrade I’d recommend is called the Klicky switch (or the PCB variant so that you don’t have to do any soldering, just crimping). The stock BoM calls for an inductive probe, which works, but is prone to thermal drift (it gets less accurate as the printer heats up, so you have to do your bed mesh at the same temperature every time). Klicky replaces it with a limit switch- generally more reliable and accurate regardless of temperature.
I might also recommend a belt tension gauge (totally not needed, but more convenient than trying to measure the sound frequency). I use a remix of this one (assembled, kit), but realistically, anything repeatable will do the trick.
Everything beyond that is going to depend heavily on your kit, printer, and needs. For example, the LDO kits actually come with the mechanical parts for the Klicky switch among other nice to haves. Or alternatively, if you’re doing a 350 2.4 and planning on long running enclosed prints (ABS/ASA), extension backers for the flying gantry may be a good idea (the steel linear rails and aluminum have different rates of thermal expansion, which can cause them to bend as the internal volume of the printer warms up), but they’re not especially necessary if you have a smaller printer or only ever work with PLA.
The official Voron discord is also a phenomenal resource. Plus most vendors run their own discord servers for help/ questions (I’m partial to Fabreeko, because their customer service is above and beyond, but West3D is also really good).
mickeyripple@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Thanks for the great info! I have a bunch of questions -
So the Klicky Switch is the probe? I see there is a Clicky Clack door kit. Don’t want to confuse them. Also, the belt tension gauge. I see some one Amazon, is any one good enough. They seem to be about $30 I don’t see anything about a extension rails for a flying gantry. I do see LDO rails, but when I pick that option it tells me "Includes 6 MGN9 rails and 1 MGN12 (recommended) - Option to choose 8x MGN9s. Are these kits CoreXY and self leveling? Also the kit has options for the controller board and display, which is Octopus and Mini123864 (matched w/brand of board). That means I don’t need to order a Raspberry PI?
I was thinking about upgrading the extruder to an Orbiter 2.5, and the hotend to a Mosquito Magnum, heater to Slice 50w, Thermistor cartridge to Slice PT1000.
I know you said the default setup is perfectly fine, but I’ve been eyeing the Slice products for a while now. I’m willing to pay the extra money and go above the $1500 to have them. Do you find this overkill?
AliasVortex@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Sure, happy to help! (Plus, I’d feel really bad recommending a Voron build and then just leaving you in the dark to figure everything out).
Yes, Klicky Switch is the probe. Mechanically, it’s pretty similar to a BL-Touch, but is way cheaper (bonus points for also being harder to break and easier to fix) since it’s just a switch and some magnets.*
Clicky Clack is a replacement for the stock door (acrylic and some VHB tape), it makes a better seal with the printer frame. Nice to have (especially if you’re trying to keep fumes down, but by no means necessary.
Depth gauges are most handy for 2.4 builds, since they run 4 belts instead of lead screws (plus 2 for the Core XY platform) that you want to have all tensioned the same, so that every motor is moving it’s corner the same amount. Technically, you can do this by plucking the belt and using the mic on your phone to measure the frequency. (More info here). The gauge is mostly just to make it easier to compare the belts against each other rather than an empirical measurement tool. Again not a need, just a nice to have. I’ve never used the Amazon gauges since I went the kit route since it was “cheaper” (I’m also reasonably sure most of the gauges on Amazon are just modified tire depth gauges, which can be had for way cheaper and with a bit of quick modeling could very early be converted into belt gauges (or maybe someone’s already done that somewhere). There’s also printed models like this or maybe this that seve the same function. In short, haven’t tried them, but anything that can give you the same measurements repeatedly should do just fine (you can always sound tension one belt, measure it and make the others match the measurement).
Whoops typo, sorry extrusion backers. These guys: steel, titanium
Not super sure about the Tridents being self leveling, I think they are, but it would kinda depend on how they’re wired up (3 independent motors vs all 3 driven off the same control). The 2.4’s are absolutely self leveling though- they do a probe of each corner and adjust the gantry to be as parallel to the bed as you specify( example). From there, they’ll also probe a bed mesh, just to help deal with any deviations in the bed/ plate.
Octopus is the main control board, I think they were used for commonly for a long while, but I don’t have one and can’t speak to it. Mini123864 looks to be the display screen (used for Klipper Screen). You’d probably want to check the Kit contents to see if a Pi is included, but based on those two alone, I’d say probably not.
(Personally, it’s a big part of why I went with the LDO kit, (this is the one I bought. More expensive, but came with high quality parts, minor upgrades, and everything short of the printed parts in the box, plus Fabreeko was running a sale when I bought mine (Voron folks like to Celebrate Clee day (was 5/25 last year) in honor of one of the outstanding community members/ Voron team members (?)/ I’m not actually entirely sure))
Uhh… Slice is not particularly well liked in Voron circles. They are very litigious with their patents, which doesn’t sit well with a crowd that is open source, well, everything (previous comment of mine with more info/ links). I think remember reading somewhere that there might be some bad blood between the Voron team and Slice, but I don’t have a link/ hard proof (beyond the fact that mounts for Slice hotends aren’t officially published with the toolhead files. If your deadset, user mods exist (and slice also sells parts)). Personally, I wasn’t all that impressed with my Mosquito Magnum, especially after I managed to irrecoverably jam the heatbreak (probably my fault. the cooling fan unplugged and heatcreap took care of the rest). Online reviews so Slices customer service was mixed, but generally skewed negative so I pretty much swore them off and wrote the hot end off as a loss (also managed to strip one of the tiny ass m2 screws that hold the thing together trying to take it apart after the aforementioned heatcreap incident). The heater and thermistor were fine- I stuffed them in a Phaetus Dragonfly though (less flow, but a solidly reliable hot end, especially on an Ender 3), and decommissioned them when I noticed that the insulation had worn though on the heater.
On the Voron, I’ve been pretty happy with the Revo High Flow that came with my Kit. Well, other than the fact that nozzle clogs are a nightmare, the cost for replacements, and general lack of availability (they exist, but my go-to vendors are almost always sold out). I haven’t decided to yet (because I don’t particularly want to recalibrate everything), but I have a Phaetus neXt G as a standby if I ever get fed up with the Revo. The Phaetus Rapido is also a popular option.
Haven’t used the Orbiter either. I don’t think I had any major issues with the stock Clockwork (it’s also been a while). I think I mostly swapped in a Galileo 2 (G2E) as a way to keep a spare extruder around in case of emergency. Overall, G2E has been pretty good- prints fine, just a bit annoying to service in the rare event of a jam (I was playing with TPU), and not known to play well with the Box Turtle MMU project that I’m working on, but that’s a problem from future me (after I get it built)…
* I can’t personally vouch for it, but in the spirit of overkill, I should probably also mention the Beacon probe, which is a stupid fast Eddy current sensor (more info here) (replaces the Klicky switch/ inductive probe)
Take this with a massive grain of salt (especially since I bought mostly of my stuff before the tarrif nonsense started), but personally, if I re-buying my machine (or building a second), the order(s) would look something like this
Fabreeko:
- LDO 2.4 350 kit
- Backers, mostly for the discount with machine purchase, but also because I print mostly ABS lately
- Printed parts, I tried to get the ender to print Voron parts and was somewhat successful but I ended up spending more time and money trying. If you don’t have a reliable source for ABS parts it’s absolutely worth the $150
- Aluminum carriage mount, significantly easier to work with the AB belts and get even lengths and tensions. Plus including in the initial build means that you don’t have the re-do the belts to install it (totally doable, just annoying).
Pre-tax, MSRP: $1,686.22 (ideally on sale for a bit of a lower price (the kits don’t tend to get much of a discount, but sometimes they throw in free printed parts or other discounts) and maybe the Clicky Clack door + acrylic if it’s a really good sale)
AliExpress:
- PCB Klicky, x2 to put it over the free shipping limit and for spare parts
total ~$20
To answer your question, Slice stuff off the bat is probably unnecessary. The nice part about Vorons is that everything can be upgraded pretty easily down the road, hopefully because you’ve identified a specific need or reason to upgrade.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
How fast are you printing? I’m very close to finally pulling the trigger on a 2.4, and would love a bump in speed. my current printer (Anycubic bedslinger with klipper) is printing PLA/ASA at 200mm/s with 6000mm/s2 accelerations and 300mm/s travel while retaining pretty good quality.
My biggest annoyances with my current printer is that despite the probed bedmesh (inductive probe) it doesn’t compensate properly on the first layer across the entire bed. There’s a 0.1mm difference between highest and lowest probed points, i would think this could easily be compensated for since it’s decently flat. But it always ends up with bad sections where it’s clearly not compensating correctly while others are perfect. I also always need to tweak Z-offset between powerdowns, which is a bit annoying since i usually need to restart the first print of the day at least once.
IMALlama@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Print duration is dependent on two components:
My print speed is often limited by volumetric flow - not the actual speed of my print head, so I haven’t bothered chasing higher ceilings. Granted, tend to print I print large/chunky/functional things so my goal is to lay down as much material as possible. If you’re chasing lots of fine detail, a smaller Voron can go faster than what I have but isn’t going to be that much faster than where you are now.
Thanks to a combination of CoreXY (rigidity) and Klipper (pressure advance, input shaping), I have basically zero ringing/ghosting show up in prints. It is worth talking about quality expectations though. Harsh lighting can reveal that layer lines are not perfectly aligned layer to layer. Not sure if this is a Voron thing or is it’s just more obvious now that my layers are a lot more noise free.
Automated gantry leveling (Klipper will get the bed and gantry to be ‘perfectly’ in plane thanks to 2.4s being able to mechanically move the four corners of the gantry independently - trident does similar, but moves the bed instead), a klicky probe and a Z calibration macro, and bed mesh make my first layers extremely consistent print to print.
One caveat: because the printer is enclosed and big (if you go for a 350), if you print sequential objects without letting the printer fully heat soak, the first layer will progressively get a touch higher and higher between prints as the printer expands in the z-axis.