Comment on I feel like if asbestos was banned today there'd be a huge pro-asbestos movement
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 3 days agoThe lead was a lubricant, and old engines ran better, and longer, on leaded gas.
There were two issues. First, tetraethyl lead increased the effective octane level. That, in turn, reduced the probability of pre-ignition, e.g., the fuel-air mixture igniting before the compression cycle was completed. Higher octane allows for higher compression, which is more efficient. The other issue was the valves specifically; the lead provided a ‘cushion’ between the valves and the valve seats, which minimized valve wear.
The octane issue is easily solved by both better refining or by adding alcohol. It was known that you could add alcohol to gas to improve octane rating even when TEL was first added, but TEL could be patented, and alcohol couldn’t. The valve issue has largely been solved by better metallurgy and manufacturing.
The one are where it hasn’t been solved is small aircraft. Some small planes still use leaded gas, and it’s mostly for the octane boost. TEL can give them a better octane rating than alcohol or better refinement can, which allows them to operate at much high compression. Take that away, and the engines are too underpowered to keep the plane in the air. Over 150,000 small airplanes still use leaded AvGas; thankfully, newer turboprop planes and all jet planes mostly use Jet A or Jet B fuel, which is closer to kerosene.
In theory, I think that you could convert older cars to run on unleaded fuels, but you would need new parts rather than OEM.
sxan@midwest.social 3 days ago
Thank you. All my knowledge of ICEs has been through osmosis via a friendship with a guy who used to be a mechanic; I don’t care about them myself, and I appreciate the extensive added information you took the time to write. It’s really the only way I learn about ICEs.
Yeah, that was ultimately my point. OEM is so important to that crowd; it’s both a status and a real value factor for them. They’re not just being contrarian: they do it because the cars they’re driving run better on leaded.
The end result may be the same, but I think the motivation matters for stuff like this. One is based on hostility, the other on a hobby passion.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 3 days ago
I understand it as a hobby/passion, even though the old cars are far less efficient, die sooner, and are less safe than now. The only way they were better, IMO, was that they were less complicated, and thus easier to wrench on. It’s significantly harder to build hot rods or street racing cars now than the way you could in the 80s and earlier.
sxan@midwest.social 18 hours ago
It was a PITA to change the battery in my 2012 Volvo, and I dread the battery change in the 2016 BMW. I can’t imagine doing anything more complex than that.
I love those old engines I see at the state fair, where the fuel is literally in an open pan on the top, sloshing around. They look like something you could put together yourself with enough effort, but the trade-off is efficiency.
I’d be happy with a fully solid-state car. I’m not a mechanic, or mechanically inclined, so I have no romantic attachment to gas guzzlers.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 8 hours ago
I enjoy working on engines when it’s not urgent, and it’s fairly low stakes if things take 5x as long as I plan, or I need more parts than I thought. OTOH, it’s incredibly stressful when my motorcycle throws an engine code that tells me there’s an electrical fault, and I know that I’m going go end up needing to tear it down, go through the wiring loom, and not be able to ride for a few weeks when the weather is finally getting really nice.
boonhet@lemm.ee 2 days ago
Unless you know how to remap a car and have a car with plenty of power reserve.
Anything turbocharged can be remapped for more power unless you’re at the limit of either the turbo, or the fuelling - and when you get there, many have options for more fuel and air. Diesels in particular are magic because you take a car that does ridiculous economy figures stock, and you double its power figures just to show people you can.
E.g Bobby Singh got 600 hp out of his diesel Audi wagon. These come stock with 240ish horsepower (176 kW or 239 PS I believe). He’s done engine internals upgrades to this one, but on other peoples’ cars he usually does bolt-on mods and gets about 400hp-500hp depending on what mods someone is willing to shell out for. Minus the upgraded internals, you could do this at home if you wanted to.
On the gasoline side, BMW has the B58 where you can get 500-600 hp with bolt-on mods and if you build it like people used to build hot rods, 1500 hp is doable. It’s considered the new 2JZ because Toyota itself put it in the Supra instead of building their own successor to the 2JZ. The 2JZ itself was a supercar killer when built properly.
On the Japanese side, I’m not sure if they’re doing anything fun new and new today, but they’ve all historically had at least one or two ridiculously tunable engines and Nissan will still sell you the very tunable GT-R.
Yes, some of those tunable newer engines come in pretty expensive cars, but there are still plenty of 4 bangers you can mod easily too. And it’s not like the hot rodders typically used small engines in the past. It was usually big ass V8s that you couldn’t even buy in most of the world because they used too much fuel lol
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 days ago
Right, that’s my point though. With my '84 Chevy Monte Carlo SS, I could drop a new engine in (started with a 305, ended with a 400 short block), do a high-flow dual carb intake, get a couple Edelbrock carbs, buy some headers, straight pipes and a glasspack muffler, and get a ton more power. (And also much, much worse fuel economy.) Now you not only need to understand wrenching, you also have to have the software and knowledge to entirely re-map the fuel, since it’s all computerized.
And while you are technically correct that you can get tons more power out of a lot of mostly stock engines, that does sharply reduce your engine lifespan. Of course, that’s always been the case, but it used to be that you could fairly easily get your block bored and sleeved to have larger pistons (“there’s no replacement for displacement”), but generally engines are running with much less material now. Oh, and they’re aluminum rather than iron, so often you’re going to have to send your block off to a specialist to get the cylinder bores coated for longevity. (I think my Honda CBR600RR had alusil or nikasil plating in the cylinders? I’m not sure now.)
I’m really, really not nostalgic for those days; yeah, hot rods are kind of neat, and it’s fun being able to do your own mechanical work, but cars now are so much more efficient, more powerful, and last 3-4x as long as cars from the 60s through early 80s.