Comment on Trump halts all military aid to Ukraine after White House clash with Zelensky
Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
A tantrum that will allow more free people who want to join NATO and the sphere of American and European influence and economy to die while saving the lives of an invading genocidal army.
And you choose this. Your ancestors would be disgusted.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 5 weeks ago
Saying that people who are kidnapped off the streets, who cannot leave the country (other than trying to cross “illegally” through mountains/rivers), who cannot vote, whose medias are controlled, saying that they are free is so fucking cruel.
Trump is the people’s only chance of survival in Zelensky’s concentration camp.
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 5 weeks ago
Or offer to give Ukraine 2 nukes if Zelensky steps down.
Or help Ukraine join a bigger organization that can help them. offer them statehood like Canada.
Better yet invade Russia right now. They can’t even take Ukraine. That will end the war.
but no let’s stop them from getting weapons over minerals rights and offer no alternatives. So Russia keeps everything and more Ukraine lives are lost over something they didn’t choose. Russia is not known for forgiving population that gave them trouble. Just look at east Berlin.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 5 weeks ago
That’s a very good idea, but only as long as only people supporting this are going to die. So, you know, you but not me.
So let’s stop the war so that lives are not lost.
Are you trying to tell me that people on liberated territories have it worse than people on Zelensky controlled territories? That’s absolutely incorrect. People on liberated territories are free and can leave at any moment. People on Zelensky’s controlled territories can’t.
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 5 weeks ago
WW3? who’s supporting Russia? A country that can barely support a war effort with increasing the age recalling vets, up aged of conscription to 30, and using prisoners to fight battles. This whole thing started because Ukraine gave up the nukes they had in 1994 for protection that they didn’t get. America is was them what is agreeded upon. Russia is not. If you can’t honor a deal then give back the nukes.
We both agree on stopping the war but bend over to appease the aggressor is not the answer. That didn’t work with Hitler either.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
None of what you mentioned has anything to do with freedom. Freedom isn’t defined by what you can do, it’s defined by what you can’t do. If they capitulate to Russia, they’ll permanently lose essential freedoms.
Yes, the situation is bad, I get that, but it should be the Ukrainian people who decide when to tap out. Russia will keep harassing them, and they will never be safe without strong allies.
bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 5 weeks ago
What? Being able to move freely has nothing to do with freedom? Not being kidnapped and forced into the meatgrinder has nothing to do with freedom? Being able to vote for your representatives has nothing to do with freedom? So, a person who cannot do any of the is free in your opinion? I guess we have a veri different definition of freedoms then.
So, how do I sign up to lose the “freedoms” I’ve described above?
But we can’t. Only Trump and Putin support us having a vote, everybody else prefers we have no say.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Everything you mentioned is due to the war. If we roll back the clock to before the war, which country was more free? If the war ends today, which country is likely to be more free?
I think Ukraine wins in both (esp if we remove issues due to Russian bullying). It wasn’t some paradise of freedom or anything, but they had a lot more voice in their government.
Neither do, they both want concessions. Trump seems to want resources, and Putin wants land and no NATO expansion. Neither wants what’s best for Ukrainians, they want spoils of war.