Comment on Sergey Brin says AGI is within reach if Googlers work 60-hour weeks

• spicystraw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  I want chocolate, I don’t eat chocolate, exercise of free will.

  By your logic no alcoholic could possible stop drinking and become sober.

  In my humble opinion, free will does not mean we are free of internal and external motivators, it means that we are free to either give in to them or go against.

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  • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    I want chocolate, I don’t eat chocolate, exercise of free will.

    There’s a reason you don’t eat chocolate (health or weight gain probably) and you didn’t choose to become a person wanting to live a healthy life style - you just do. You can’t take credit for your ability to not eat chocolate any more than you can blame an alcoholic for their inability to not drink.

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    • spicystraw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      I am curious to hear why you insist it’s inevitable. What intrinsic properties of the universe make you believe that we don’t have any choice and all our actions are set in stone?

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      • 10001110101@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        For me. I think everything is physical, and there’s always a cause and effect. There is no magical non-physical consciousness. A combination of your genetics, experiences, and environment determine the “choices” you make/actions you take. Free will is an illusion, IMO.

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      • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        What is inevitable? At no point have I claimed that our actions are set in stone. That would imply fatalism which equally suggest that things can happen without anything causing them to happen.

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      • michaelmrose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Your choice of words is an analytical failure it says that the the will somehow sitting on top of all those processes rather than being a function of them.

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  • semperverus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Our universe is predeterministic. Block Universe (aka Eternalism).

    Check mate.

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    • spicystraw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      It’s not according to quantum physics we observe

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      • semperverus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Seemingly “random” events can still be containerized in the crystalized time structure.

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• antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Free will is what sets us apart from most other animals. I would assert that many humans rarely exert their own free will. Having an interest and pursuing it is an exercise of free will. Some people are too busy surviving to do this. Curiosity and exploration are exercises of free will. Another would be helping strangers or animals - a choice bringing the individual no advantage.

  You argue that wants, preferences, and beliefs are not chosen. Where do they come from? Why does one individual have those interests and not another? It doesn’t come from your parents or genes. It doesn’t come from your environment.

  It’s entirely possible to choose your interests and beliefs. People change religions and careers. People abandon hobbies and find new ones. People give away their fortunes to charity.

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  • Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    By free will I mean the ability to have done otherwise. This, I argue is an illusion. What ever the reason is that makes one choose A rather than B will make them choose A over and over again no matter how many times we rewind the universe and try again. What ever compelled you to make that choise remains unchanged and you’d choose the same thing every time. There’s no freedom in that.

    I also don’t see a reason why humans would be unique in that sense. If we have free will then what leads you to believe that other animals don’t? If they can live normal lives without free will, then surely we can too, right?

    I don’t know where our curiousity or the desire to help the less fortunate comes from. Genes and environmental factors most likely. That’s why cultural differences exists too. If we all just freely chose our likes and not-likes then it’s a bit odd that people living in the same country have similar preferences but the people on the other side of the world are significantly different.

    Also, have you read about split brain experiments? When the corpus callosum is severed which prevents the different brain hemispheres from communicating with each other we can then with some clever tricks interview the different hemispheres separately and the finding there is that they tend to have vastly different preferences. Which hemisphere is “you”?

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    • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Free will comes from the “heart”, not the brain. It doesn’t fit in the materialistic view of science. Our bodies are quantum electric fields, and those fields interact. In my own experience I would say emotions or intentions don’t translate fully from video, but in person I can feel them.

      Maybe if they add a quantum processor to the computer it can gain free will (disguised as random chance). But I think we have more to learn about the nature of consciousness before AGI is anywhere close to having free will.

      And why is free will necessary for intelligence? New discoveries require curiosity. Scientific breakthroughs require new connections and discernment of truth. If the computer is doing research, it needs to decide when to stop looking, who to ask questions to, how far to dig, designing further experiments. Without free will you just have a big fancy encyclopedia.

      The dangerous side of free will is manipulation, subversion, exploitation, deception, etc. So yeah I hope they don’t figure it out.

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