Comment on Ukraine isn’t invited to its own peace talks. History is full of such examples – and the results are devastating

• Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Look, however it started, Russia has had significant portions of those territories for a decade. They’ve been arresting dissidents, running propaganda, and making their roots as deep as possible. It’s not going to be easy for Ukraine to just resume administration of those areas.

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  • SpaceCadet@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I live in a country that was occupied by Nazi Germany, where the Nazis did the exact same things and put the local Nazi sympathizers in charge of local administration. It didn’t turn us into a country with deep Nazi roots.

    We just imprisoned and shot those fuckers after the war.

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I hope it’s that easy. I fear it’s not.

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• Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It’s funny to me how both sides say this about the other. There were two rebellions in Ukraine backed by foreign powers, and which one you think is legitimate and which one was created by foreign meddling doesn’t seem to have anything to do with any facts on the ground, it’s entirely about which global hegemon you support.

  In reality, both the succession movement and Euromaiden involved a combination of foreign agitation and popular support, and it’s nowhere near as black and white as either side pretends.

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  • SpaceCadet@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Fuck your disingenuous bothesidesism.

    Western support of Euromaidan (what you erroneously call “meddling”) isn’t remotely comparable to the straight acts of war that Russia committed in the Donbas.

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    • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Of course not. It’s not meddling when we do, because we’re the good guys.

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      • SpaceCadet@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Ah fuck, I just see that you are lemmy.ml tankie scum. Of course you are siding with autocratic fascists. blocked

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      • SpaceCadet@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Hey fuckwit, you didn’t reply to a single thing I said.

        Europe supported the Ukrainian people vocally, but verbally during the Maidan.

        Russia armed and funded extreme Russian nationalists, you know like actual nazi scum, and sent them to Ukraine led by FSB officers, controlled directly from the Kremlin. Nobody in the Donbas asked for this, except for retarded nazi scum.

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• Gammelfisch@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Indeed and most of the Russian supporting rebels are fertilizing Ukraine’s soil.

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• AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Yes, I do know that. What difference does it make to my point?

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  • SpaceCadet@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Everything, because the people of D&L will not violently resist. They were peaceful citizens of Ukraine, who overwhelmingly voted for Ukrainian independence in 1991.

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    • AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Define the “people”. Currently, the separatists in charge in the republics are openly pro-Russian and welcomed the annexation with open arms. They won’t step down quietly and accept reintegration into Ukraine. In the event that Ukraine officially claims victory in Donbas, there will be an insurgency there for years, backed by the Kremlin. There’s already been one since 2014.

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      • Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I hope you don’t believe it won’t be similar the other way around, because it will. Citizens loyal to Ukraine won’t just roll over and accept the annexation no matter what the US and Russian regimes are saying. They’ll most likely keep fighting as they do now.

        Honestly, the best that could happen to resolve the issue and not causing it to become a century-long problem with “generational hate” fueling a lasting conflict would be for EU countries as well as other allies (Australia, Japan, South Korea etc) to go all-in and keep supporting Ukraine, in a way it overwhelms Russia. Of course I know how unrealistic that sounds right now…

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