What’s the point of ceding part of your country for peace, if you get invaded again a few years later? That’s not peace.
Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Zelenskyy has stated that he is not willing to negotiate with Putin as well as that they will not settle for less than getting back all the occupied territories including Crimea. There is no peace deal to be made with these terms as the starting point.
zaphod@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
nednobbins@lemm.ee 2 months ago
There isn’t. There’s also no point in continuing a strategy that clearly favors Russia (they’re the ones steadily gaining ground every month).
The better strategy (which Trump almost certainly won’t entertain) is to negotiate a peace now and use that time to build a robust defense-in-depth at the current border.
It will be ugly because it will turn miles of border into a dangerous DMZ. But Russia already demonstrated that it works. Dig a crap ton of trenches. Build out bunkers and anti-tank traps. Ignore Geneva a bit and mine the crap out of the area. Lots of surveillance. Probably some experimental infrastructure to make it easier to deploy drones.
That would also need to be coupled with commitments to build out munitions plants in Western Ukraine; primarily artillery shells and drones.
This will work because it dramatically raises the cost of each meter of ground gained by opposing forces. They can get defensive infrastructure that they can cheaply operate, without significant external assistance.
The downside is that Ukraine would loose parts of its territory. The upside is that it has a far better chance of keeping the territory it still has.
Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Seems like something that’s atleast worth the shot when the alternative is to continue with the ongoing war while losing more and more territory and soldiers each day. In order to prevent a war from happening again you first need to stop the war that’s already going on.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I feel like it might be a bit better to try to fight on until you have at least some security guarantees, so you know they just don’t attack you right after regrouping than let them disarm you in name of peace and then get fucked right after by their attack.
Leaving yourself at the mercy of your attacker is the sort of lunacy you’d only have to resort to when you have no other choice.
Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 2 months ago
I don’t see how continuing the fight is going to lead to security guarantees for Ukraine. A peace deal or ceasefire could at least allow individual countries to send peacekeepers independently of NATO. There are ways to deter a future attack outside of full membership. And if a ceasefire ends up being just a chance to regroup, then at least Ukraine gets that chance as well. As we saw during Ukraine’s “counteroffensive,” well-fortified positions are extremely difficult and costly to break through.
baggins@beehaw.org 2 months ago
Or your name is Trump.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 2 months ago
Zelenskys voice doesn’t matter. Thats the point. What matters is the people funding him with money and weapons.
yozul@beehaw.org 2 months ago
What, you think Ukrainians are going to stop defending their homes just because Trump stops sending them fancy weapons? That’s not how this works. The war isn’t going to end. It’s just going to get a lot nastier.
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 2 months ago
At some point all of them will die. That’s how colonialism works.
yozul@beehaw.org 2 months ago
The power dynamic just isn’t skewed enough here for that. Ukraine is not exactly a major world power, but Russia’s not exactly looking like a superpower either. Even if the US switching sides is enough for them to plant a flag in Kiev, the simple fact of the matter is that Russia does not have the capacity to occupy a country the size of Ukraine. Planting a flag in Kiev is the EASY part. It only gets harder from there. You only have to look at any war the US has been involved in to see that in action.
Peck@lemmy.world 2 months ago
He’s just bargaining. Internal preparations for the deal have already started. Such as taking Ukrainian oligarchs to court so they give up their mineral rights.
lurklurk@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What part of your country are you willing to give to Russia to keep the peace?
And then repeat every few years until all of your country is russia
Isn’t peace grand?
sleep_deprived@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Giving away conquered territory in hopes of peace is called appeasement. Historically, it doesn’t go well.
Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 2 months ago
What’s the alternative here?
sleep_deprived@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
The alternative is making Russia getting/keeping the territory a worse option than leaving Ukraine the hell alone. I agree that the unfortunate reality is that Putin will never - can never - give up the war willingly without concessions, but the flip side to that is they’ll be back for more sooner or later. We have to make the war such a bad option for Russia that Putin is deposed, whether by his oligarchs or by the Russian people. It’s a difficult fight, but it’s one we’ve fought before on 3 fronts in WWII. The difference, this time, being nukes exist and that understandably makes a lot of people nervous - but again, expansionists never stop. The confrontation has to come at some point unless we want all-out war in Europe.
I’m far removed from the situation, so my opinion isn’t worth much on this part, but I think realistically maybe there could be some concessions around Crimea for a peace deal - sort of a status quo ante or similar - but Russia would have to make some concessions in turn for Ukraine to agree (NATO peacekeeping forces in Ukraine? Still a no-go for Putin though…). Ceding Ukranian territorial losses from the current war, though, will only put off the eventual confrontation, and hurt the West in the meantime.
lorty@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
There’s nothing that can be done, Russia is winning on the battlefield. At this point negotiating suits Ukraine, not the other way around.
ghost_of_faso3@lemmygrad.ml 2 months ago
If your opinion isnt worth shit dont share it, the notion that Russia will give up any territory, never mind territory it held before the invasion is counter to the reality where the entire ukraine front is currently collapsing and Zelensky isnt even being considered in peace talks because he has no position of strength due to insane losses.
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
You’re right and it might be humanity’s only chance at survival. In the post nuclear era, we must either eradicate all warmongering, or it will likely kill every single one of us.
If Putin wins, no one else can.
diablexical@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Conquered territories including Kursk?
superkret@feddit.org 2 months ago
It worked for Finland (after the Winter War).