It’s quite disingenuous to say defederating because of political differences. It because you guys are intolerable and intolerant trolls who go on the attack at the drop of a hat at every opportunity. I haven’t seen hexbear ever participate in good faith outside of this very thread. You’re only nice and capable of calm, rational, reasoned discussion when you’re being threatened with consequences. Ironically a luxury that communist nations would not provide you with.
Comment on Hexbear federation megathread
LinkedinLenin@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Hexbear has been around for three years, all the while dealing with a constant stream of bad faith wreckers and doxxers from 4chan and the like. Ultimately our goal is to foster a broad-tent leftist culture, with primary focus on LGBTQ+ and anti-US-imperialism. Within those two focuses we have a wide range of leftist tendencies, from anarchist (syndicalist, ancom, etc) to Marxist (trotskyist, leftcom, ML, etc). We, I personally, see good-faith disagreement as tremendously valuable and necessary for growth of ideas. We do our best to discourage sectarianism (within the bounds of anti-imperialist, pro-LGBTQ+ leftism) while encouraging discussion.
I really dislike the idea of defederating for difference in political opinions. That kind of thing merely recreats the kind of echo chambers found on corporate social media. I believe Lemmy has potential to be better than that. Differences in philosophy and politics and culture should be moderated at the community and personal level rather than broadly sweeping instance blocks. This leaves the agency up to communities to set rules and define their cultures, banning people as needed at this level rather than simply cutting off entire communities. It also gives users the agency to choose whether to block instances, communities, or users they’d rather not interact with (instance blocking on a user level is coming soon I believe).
The other reasons people give for defederating us (although I believe politics is primary) are spamming and brigading. The former is due to: the oversized emoji bug in Lemmy (we’re sorry for this, on our side the emojis are normal sized so we don’t even realize they’re spamming) as well as the novelty of federation and lack of clear delineation between local and federated posts. The emoji bug will be fixed, and in the mean time we’re on notice to try and avoid using them while on other instances. The novelty will quickly wear off. As for delineation between local and federated, this is a mistake that’s gone both ways: lemm.ee users stumbling upon a hexbear post and not understanding why they’re being responded to differently, as well as hexbear users stumbling upon a lemm.ee post and commenting/meming as if they’re on their home turf. In either case, the rules of the given instance and community should be followed and enforced through bans rather than defederation, and ideally there’d be some CSS to make it obvious when someone’s on another instance to make it easier to follow said rules. Defederating because of this happening would be like a person on Reddit posting their /r/NSFW stuff on /r/awww by mistake, and /r/awww unilaterally blocking all /r/NSFW users, as if there’s no overlapping userbase.
As for brigading, by and large I think people are overreacting because they’re used to the walled garden Reddit has become in its profit-seeking attempts to ban wrongthink. Keep in mind that Hexbear users have no ability to downvote (literally removed from the site for other reasons a while ago), so at most a “brigade” (or most often simply seeing a post on our front page) will be a bunch of (soon-to-be normal-sized) emojis and opinions you may disagree with. If a user is breaking a comm or instance rule they can be banned. If they’re engaging in bad faith or spamming they can be blocked. Hell, even if they’re engaging in good faith they can be blocked if a person simply doesn’t want to see takes they disagree with. But ultimately it seems like a non-issue to me. Allow those of us that want to engage with diverse opinions to do so, and allow the rest to block as they see fit.
Jesus@lemm.ee 1 year ago
MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 1 year ago
I haven’t seen hexbear ever participate in good faith outside of this very thread.
You have a cool art comm here I’ve been posting in. I posted a pretty wild George Grosz painting you might like.
As for good faith commenting outside this thread, how about these…?
All the Chinese people in China who I totally really know in real life for sure. Those Chinese people in China that I totally really know all say they love love Xi. It’s totally because they really really want to and not because dissent isn’t allowed. They totally didn’t start making grade schoolers go to several extra hours of school a day to learn to worship Xi 2 years ago btw. Also there is no air pollution in Beijing. Did I mention I totally know some Chinese people. You’re all a bunch of sheltered white libs…not like me. I mean yeah, I am a lib, only 15, white, and I do live in my parents basement…but I know things, things that you don’t. There’s no way other people have any experience of the world so you have to believe, because I pretend…I mean DO, I do know some Chinese people in China and they are Chinese. They totally love their Chinese life in China where everyone has 120% literacy rate and reads 5 astrophysics books on their way to work in Beijing where there’s no air pollution in China.
You sound just like every other idiot that says that. Trumpers, anti-vaxxers and the like. If you have to look around for yOur Own rEsEaRcH that lines up with what you want it to say, it’s because it’s not based in facts. You guys seem to honestly think you sound smart…smh
They’re running around spewing barely-sensical insults acting like they’re dunking on people, but all their really doing is turning off anyone who was ever possibly sympathetic to their cause. And are completely un-informed on top of that
They’re laughable.
Anyone with half a brain can see what’s going on. I’m not playing these silly obfuscation games. You’re bad at what you do.
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy
Jesus@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Are you telling on me? like a child. Love to see how you included the context that show that these were all in response to the exact sort of behavior at issue in this thread. Enjoy your defederation. and enjoy your life where you’re such an insufferable person that people are literally fighting about how to best not be anywhere near you. You must be proud.
MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 1 year ago
It was just a simple way to demonstrate to the people reading, that your concerns about Hexbear users acting in good faith were obviously nonsense, since the tone of all your posts have been… well… exactly like the one you just made.
DickFuckarelli@hexbear.net 1 year ago
This is patently false. Sorry. I’ve witnessed and participated in plenty of civil discussions across the federated space. And I’m also plenty critical of Hexbear from the inside.
Not to be reductive but your compaints can be boiled down to, “Hexbear is a large instance, Hexbear is vocal, and I don’t like it.”
NuPNuA@lemm.ee 1 year ago
You say you’re trying to create a “broad tent” left wing culture. Yet I’ve voted left wing all my life, I’m very much a democratic socialist who believes we need better distribution of wealth and support for the vulnerable in society. I simply don’t think violence and revolution are the path to said society and would prefer to win hearts and minds at the ballot box.
Yet I’ve made some fairly benign comments to that end, only to be attacked by your user and called things like an “indoctrinated liberal” for them, that’s if they bothered to even type anything and didnt just spam me with rude emoticons. It doesn’t feel like you’re after a broad tent with that behaviour if I’m honest.
brain_in_a_box@hexbear.net 1 year ago
By left wing, we usually mean anti-capitalists.
LinkedinLenin@hexbear.net 1 year ago
I don’t really want to relitigate your experiences and these issues in this thread (especially because I’m a visitor on lemm.ee), so I’ll try to be succinct. But I’m happy to continue elsewhere if you want.
What we mean by “broad tent” or nonsectarian is that diverse opinions aren’t explicitly banned or removed (as long as they aren’t pro western imperialism or anti LGBTQ+). That means shitflinging and low effort sectarianism (ideally) isn’t allowed. It doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to voice disagreement about ideologies and geopolitics. And since we don’t have downvotes, we aren’t afraid to voice disagreement, unlike Reddit where you just anonymously downvote and move on. This difference is certainly a culture shock at first, but I’ve come to prefer it. Even if everyone else disagrees with you, you still have a voice, rather than getting buried in downvotes and hidden.
As much as our users call people liberals derogatorily, in equal amounts we get called bots and shills and tankies (which is especially funny when directed at our anarchist users). I’d personally rather name calling be avoided in favor of good faith discussion, but it’s difficult to assume good faith on the internet.
LeateWonceslace@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I get the feeling that" pro-western imperialism" is a stand-in for any opinions that Leninists don’t like.
super_mario_69@hexbear.net 1 year ago
What does this even mean? Obviously Leninists are going to dislike opinions that are pro-imperialism, because Marxism-Leninism is inherently anti-imperialist. There are plenty of other opinions we dislike that are not related to imperialism at all. As principled communists we tend to be able and willing to explain why we disagree, though it’s tiring to have to explain the same things a million times to people who aren’t even really listening (thus the occasional pig-poop-balls). We’re only human. Try to keep an open mind and entertain the thought that our opinions might actually be sincere.
LinkedinLenin@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Our anarchist users are also vocally against western imperialism. Leninists will voice their opinions through their Leninist lens, or perhaps their experience of the world will lead them to preferring a Leninist analysis. But the same is true for our anarchists, trotskyists, syndicalists, whatever.
It’s more that people who are used to a small or different Overton window will group all anti-western-imperialism stances as “Leninist” (or more accurately, they’ll group and dismiss them all as “tankie”) because they don’t yet understand the nuances.
GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Do you believe the rich and powerful will submit to being voted out of power? Do you think they won’t ratfuck anyone who gets close and buy off, intimidate, or assassinate anyone who gets in? We’ve seen what that looks like internationally, it looks like coups and the slaughter of peaceful actors. Do you think that, with such violence used to protect the appendages of capitalism, they will roll over and allow you to claim their beating heart?
Chapo_is_Red@hexbear.net 1 year ago
You should consider getting involved in labor or tenants unions. Voting is easily marginalized, is only able to act at periodic intervals and doesn’t build organization.
Without building working class institutions (like unions), we will never overcome the capitalists.
NuPNuA@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I work in the public sector in the UK so I’ve been part of the GMB Union for fifteen odd years at this point, was a rep for them for five years in my last office and was debating signing up to do it again.
Don’t know about a tenants union as I own my flat, although I did do years of renting prior to that an I’m well aware of how hard it is for renters.
Chapo_is_Red@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Hell yeah 😎
Silverseren@kbin.social 1 year ago
Why specifically anti-US imperialism and not anti-imperialism everywhere?
AbsolutelyNotABot@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Because it’s bad only if someone I don’t like does it
LeateWonceslace@lemm.ee 1 year ago
This.