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Comment on The one drawback to walking at night

KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

You are not alone in feeling that. Everyone being angry about this in here probably feels the same. And it’s incredibly ingenuine to on one hand say this post communicates feelings about fear of going outside and/or men, while simultaneously dismissing feelings of anger at being called a murderer.

My own comment being dismissive of this post (because it’s a shitpost, that’s the literal community here) was deleted.

Another one where I say “women lie” is being downvoted and it was (softly) implied I’m a murderer for saying this (The comment says “You are the man we are afraid of”, context is “men like to murder” as of the OP). The reply and votes to the “women lie” one means people do in fact notice that an overgeneralization hurts. They just don’t care if it hurts men. Presumably because “men are murderers” and are thus not allowed a voice besides belittling themselves.

It’s just sad.

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Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I made a reply to blind3rdeye where I mirrored some of your sentiments. I have a hard time finding mutual empathy with people. When anyone talks about the unique pain of belonging to certain groups I try my hardest to trust them. I do this because of how much dismissiveness there is of men’s issues.

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- KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I get that. I found myself on the side of vegans after a post mocked them for being a vegan while the nature they’re protecting is not, and comments then clowning on the vegans that showed up. “How do you know they’re vegan? They’ll tell you.” Kind of stuff. I’m not vegan but I really don’t like this kind of baiting.
  
  My comments were way better received then.
  
  I like what you wrote in the other comment, btw.
  
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- _lunar@lemmy.ml ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  the thing is, nobody here is being dismissive of men’s issues, because this thread is not a conversation about men’s issues. men are coming in here and dismissing women’s issues.
  
  you guys never seem to talk about this on your own accord, but rather only when it’s to bring down women for talking about the realities they face. it makes it difficult to believe that any of you sincerely care about what you claim to.
  
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  - Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You are under a comment about my experience and feelings. I am a man. These are my feelings as a man. People are very publicly dismissing them. You can’t just banish injustices towards people you don’t want to think about away to somewhere else.
    
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    _lunar@lemmy.ml ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    yes, a comment about your experiences and feelings as a man under a thread about women’s experiences. i’m staying on the topic hand.
    
    i shouldn’t have to explain to you why going “okay but what about men” every time women talk about their experiences is problematic and dismissive.
    
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_lunar@lemmy.ml ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
the difference is your generalization isn’t based in statistical fact. women who lie about false rape accusations (i assume that’s what you’re trying to get at here) are such an unfathomably small minority that no man ever has to live their life considering it. by saying that this is something women in do in equivalence to what women are saying men do, you’re implying otherwise and implying the authenticity of countless women’s experiences with sexual violence at the hands of men is invalid. experiences which are already seldom believed by the people who need to hear it.

on the other hand, a substantial amount of women experience sexual violence from men. it’s statistically common enough that women have to live in fear and that conventional wisdom has long held that women should not go out at night alone, carry mace, etc. etc. etc.

bottom line is, it’s a false equivalency that serves only to invalidate the reality women must face, and what you’re trying to equate it to is that reality. you are harming women by doing this.

it does not harm men to point out what a significant enough amount of them to be dangerous to women at large are doing. you are not personally affected by women saying that men are violent or murderers, but women are personally affected by your exaggerated claims of dishonesty when they speak out against this violence.

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- Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  This is sexism. This woman didn’t say “too bad recites national murder statistics exist.” She said men.
  
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  - _lunar@lemmy.ml ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    When you make a sweeping statement about women being dishonest in their accusations, this is unfounded. Men are statistically extremely unlikely to be falsely accused of sexual violence by a woman. A man does not need to consider a woman to be a potential threat.
    
    When you make a sweeping statement about men being violent against women, this is not unfounded. Women are statistically very likely to experience violence from men. That doesn’t mean all or even a majority of men, but enough that women have to consider men to be a potential threat.
    
    By trying to equate the two, you serve only to dismiss the credibility of very often real experiences from women. This harms women very much, especially in a society where they’re already seldom believed by the people who need to hear them, such as the authorities.
    
    It is not sexism toward men to point out that men are the ones committing violence against women specifically, it’s a fact backed up by evidence. She said men because it’s not a woman who is realistically going to be a threat to her. Men ≠ All men.
    
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    Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    If this woman said “too bad black people exist.” Would you rush to defend her with statistics. Stop being a hypocrite injustice is injustice doesn’t matter who does it or who they do it against.
    
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- KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Your assumption is yours to make, I was being deliberately ambiguous. My point was “men like murdering” sounds like a fact, but isn’t. Just as “women lie” sounds like a fact, but isn’t.
  
  the difference is your generalization isn’t based in statistical fact.
  
  The OP isn’t, either. There is no difference. Both are damaging overgeneralizations. Even though more women (because its easier) do lie (again, ambiguous. Can be about how their food tasted) way more often than men do murder, both are damaging overgeneralizations. One more than the other.
  
  Also:
  
  it’s statistically common enough
  
  You are referencing statistics. For the second time. Provide them.
  
  you are harming women by doing this.
  
  No, you just feel like that. Me arguing that I don’t want to be called a murderer because of my penis is not a downplay of rape. You did that part all on your own.
  
  it does not harm men to point out what a significant enough amount of them to be dangerous to women at large are doing.
  
  That’s a lie. Also, how does that fit in with me harming women by pointing something out? We are talking about the sentence “men like murder”, which is rightfully being under fire. You could say this is a shitpost, but your comment is not.
  
  you are not personally affected by women saying that men are violent or murderers
  
  Lie. Here you also try to justify the post as the truth. Just for future reference.
  
  but women are personally affected by your exaggerated claims of dishonesty
  
  How? And how am I not affected by you denying my experience?
  
  violence that they are statistically far more likely to experience.
  
  Are you talking about rape or murder? If you talk about murder, like the OP, that’s again a lie.
  
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  - _lunar@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You, in particular, are not being called a murderer, because the OP clearly says “men” and not “all men.” You are however contributing to the problem by being dismissive and making a discussion about women’s safety about you, which is why women should be afraid of you since you are clearly self-serving and have no empathy for and understanding of their plight.
    
    Please explain to me how women talking about violence from men affects you personally. I can tell you how exaggerating your claim is harmful toward women, since because of the disproportionate violence and sexual abuse they face from men, they often find themselves having to speak on their experiences, and often aren’t believed thanks to unfounded biases like yours.
    
    The difference is that your claim is grossly exaggerated to appear equal to the OP’s claim, which actually has statistic validity. The OP’s only mistake is specifying murder, which isn’t the only threat of violence at the hands of men a woman would potentially (and has a good chance of having to) face walking alone at night, but anyone who isn’t 12 should be able to understand the use of hyperbole in a motherfucking shitpost. The intention is clear. it is not safe for women because of violence from men.
    
    Here are the statistics: rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem, ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/…/table-42.xls, statista.com/…/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-gend…
    
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    Fleur_@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You are using statistics inappropriately. You don’t understand the argument you are just trying to villainise men
    
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    KomfortablesKissen@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You are being disingenuous again. Because you keep piling up new things and also because:
    
    You, in particular, are not being called a murderer, because the OP clearly says “men” and not “all men.”.
    
    If that were the case, why did you find fault at the assumed statement of “women lie about rape”? I didn’t say “all”. If you believed what you just wrote to be true, you wouldn’t have brought this up. The OP was a blanket statement that included me. For nothing other than having a penis. Also, don’t forget that one comment that implied this to me directly.
    
    You are however contributing to the problem by being dismissive and making a discussion about women’s safety about you
    
    Yeah, no. Learn how to make a discussion without accusations, like the accusation that was done in the OP, and then you can argue that. I realize you didn’t make the initial accusation, but you are defending it, and are also trying to make it into a “woman experience” which should somehow make it above reproach. That’s low.
    
    which is why women should be afraid of you since you are clearly self-serving and have no empathy for and understanding of their plight.
    
    Defending myself being called a murderer is self-serving and makes me without empathy and women should be afraid of me. What?
    
    Please explain to me how women talking about violence from men affects you personally.
    
    Oh, depends. If a friend asks for help in a current situation I can lend a helping hand. If a friend experienced something like this I can lend an ear and a shoulder. On the internet I can at least listen. And I do.
    
    In this case someone was accusing me of being a murderer for having a penis, and you keep telling me that that’s not what’s happening. If you want to be listened to by me you need to tone down the accusations. To zero. Except if I did something, then I will take the blame. But I didn’t, so I won’t.
    
    I can tell you how exaggerating your claim is harmful toward women, since because of the disproportionate violence and sexual abuse they face from men, they often find themselves having to speak on their experiences, and often aren’t believed thanks to unfounded biases like yours.
    
    Then don’t exaggerate it. What does that have to do with me? Also, you are cultivating a bias in me right now, not unfounded. It does only include you, in case that makes you feel better.
    
    The difference is that your claim is grossly exaggerated to appear equal to the OP’s claim, which actually has statistic validity
    
    It is not, because the OP has none. Even though men murder women more often than women murder women (which is a statistical truth), this isn’t what was stated in the OP. “Men love to commit murder” was the OP. There is no fact stated. Definitely not a statistically backed one.
    
    The OP’s only mistake is specifying murder, which isn’t the only threat of violence at the hands of men a woman would potentially (and has a good chance of having to) face walking alone at night, but anyone who isn’t 12 should be able to understand the use of hyperbole in a motherfucking shitpost.
    
    The OP made many mistakes which qualified it as a proper shitpost. I am not condemning that, I just don’t like it, as stated. I am condemning you.
    
    The intention is clear. it is not safe for women because of violence from men.
    
    That is the intended feeling, yes. Incredibly bad delivery, a shitpost even, but yeah that’s it. Feel free to feel, I guess.
    
    Put the statistics into the relevant parts of your comment next time. I won’t build your argument for you.
    
    This will be my last reply in this particular thread. I guess anyone reading won’t be reading the essays we wrote, and I’m feeling you are arguing in bad faith here. Have a nice day.
    
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