Comment on The guardian on Joe Rogan's popularity in Aus, and some peoples' reasons for listening.

Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “middle path of masculinity”, between the “emasculated” and “browbeaten” male of the far left and the Tate-like women haters and “pickup artists” of the far right.

  “We want to foster the good side [of masculinity],” he says. “Which is being on the mission, wanting to be strong, being something of a warrior, but also being the good man, the loving husband, the loving partner, the good father”

  “There is a vitriol against that idea[…]"

  If you ask most people who allegedly want to brow beat men what “good masculinity” is you would probably get stuff like:

  • strong and helpful
  • patient
  • skilled
  • protects people
  • Loving and attentive
  • Takes care of body and mind
  • Good in a crisis

  This guy is claiming men are attacked for wanting to be strong, loving, a good father, and ‘something of a warrior’

  Idk what the last means but I basically only see men attacked for

  • treating women as less then men
  • using violence to solve problems that could be talked out
  • using violence on the vulnerable

  Which uh, notably aren’t in his list of reason men are attacked. So I want to ask what men’s opinions are.

  source

  • galoisghost@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    My opinion is that men who think men are being attacked for their masculinity are misogynists who think that because they speak nicely to their wife/mother/daughter they are nice guys and all the toxic stuff the tolerate and/or do is just boys being boys.

    source

    • NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The impression that I’m getting is that some people are angry at not being praised, having people say mean things sometimes, or at the possibility of being passed over because of what rather than who they are.

      Which I get it, that shit sucks. But like women are dealing with that too. Idk if men experience like getting catcalled and being like “shit, am I in danger now?”. Do guys feel like you need another man to walk with you home from a train station at night?

      It just seems a bit to me like there’s not much empathy here from the blokes complaining. Yes we should all be kinder to each other, and being looked over is awful. On the latter women are looked over all the time and surely broadly making opportunity 50:50 (realistically because women live slightly longer a true unbiased society would see a very slight majority women in major positions). Like look at Parliament and tell me women aren’t held back from power.

      And with mean stuff being said like yes that is rude but again women also deal with that and worse. It doesn’t seem like a reason to hold a grudge, it seems like a reason to band together to equalise everything so the fear and suspicion can stop.

      source
  • vividspecter@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    "browbeaten” male of the far left

    This line really stood out to me. Have they met anyone on the left in their lives?

    It’s like they have some imaginary idea of what a left-winger looks and acts like in their minds.

    source

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The left doesn’t want you to know this but 100% of leftist women are dommes

      source
  • DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think many are quick to colour all men with the same brush when any man does something bad (murder, domestic violence, etc). This ignores the fact that most men aren’t doing this and are helpless to stop it. It’s not like we’re choosing to let domestic violence to continue. We’re just as powerless as anyone else.

    And there’s a real focus on the worst of men’s behaviour, without any appreciation of the good things men do, to balance it out.

    All men are flawed, just like all women are flawed (except my Mrs). We’re all a mix of good and bad, trying to do our best.

    source

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s not like we’re choosing to let domestic violence to continue. We’re just as powerless as anyone else.

      I think this is really interesting, who do you think can?

      It’s also true that male loneliness is pretty significant, and lonely guys are more prone to developing extreme and hateful views but the only people that can do anything about man to man friendships are other men.

      There are some fantastic initiatives like lens sheds that are trying to knit a healthy social structure and almost nobody participates in them.

      source

      • DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Men don’t have to have male friends to not be lonely. Any friends will do. I have lots of great female friends.

        As far as solving domestic violence, I don’t know how to do that. But I think we can all agree that we want it to end. Probably even the perpetrators of DV want it to end.

        Maybe a big part of it is finding those who are most likely to be perpetrators and try to understand them better. And help them better understand themselves.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
  • goodthanks@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When I see people trying to define positive masculinity, they list traits that are actually good traits I look for in female partners, or male friends. This leads me to believe that the complaints about emasculation are confused ones. I know my mostly absent father complained to my mum about emasculation once. Well, step up and be strong and responsible like most single mothers have to do. Too many guys expect to be respected just for being male. Prove it. Be a good person, male or female.

    source
  • Didros@beehaw.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think there is also a legitimate response here to the general acceptance of “all men should just die” rhetoric that was popular for a while there (and still is in some circles).

    When I was young I told a girlfriend that I wanted to get into politics to help people. She responded, “but you are a white man, you can’t help anyone” or something of the like. Really sticks with you.

    source

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      “but you are a white man, you can’t help anyone” or something of the like. Really sticks with you.

      That’s a silly thing to say but it also sounds like it came from the mouth of a teenager? Teenagers say lots of dumb stuff I wouldn’t recommend forming societal views based on them.

      Most women have had the experience of being humiliated sexually, and belittled intellectually by young men. Do you feel that women should feel like we’re under attack?

      source

      • Didros@beehaw.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I can’t say you should feel anything, simply that I’ve felt as though society doesn’t want my help due to my gender. Therefore, could extrapolate that into a reason other men might feel that way.

        I don’t understand people generally, but I do my best to give people the benefit of the doubt.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
  • MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There’s a ton of casual misandry in American media and some are more sensitive to it than others.

    source
  • Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I basically only see men attacked for

    Hmm maybe this might help (it came out 3 days before the election) www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M

    source

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Could you just summarise it because a video is sort of an inaccessible format for public text discussion?

      source

      • Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        [deleted]

        source

        • -> View More Comments
      • Zagorath@aussie.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Without having clicked the link, I assumed the US election last year.

        source