Comment on Linus Torvalds affirms expulsion of Russian maintainers

• TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  You’re getting little in the way of benefit of the doubt because you’re repeatedly trying to make Russia look good and misleading about this.

  11 maintainers from sanctioned Russian companies were removed from their position where they could submit patches without any approval required.

  Even if there weren’t sanctions, it would be good to make that move. Russia could easily utilise these people to introduce insecurities. We do not need another xz utils disaster.

  Yes, Russia is committing genocide as the UN defines it. Stop trying to minimise what they’re doing. Genocide. Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine.

  Genocide: “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”

  Putin has been leveling entire cities. He said Ukraine isn’t a real country with a real culture. He has been abducting children and bringing them into Russia so they grow up as Russians. He has been altering signs, maps, etc to erase Ukrainian names.

  That is genocide.

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  • aidan@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    You’re getting little in the way of benefit of the doubt because you’re repeatedly trying to make Russia look good and misleading about this.

    Never did either of those things.

    It’s also somewhat hard to take you seriously when in another comment you equated drinking alcohol with child rape.

    Why are you lying? I did not equate them, and you know that. I analogized. If I say a sad movie “hit me like a truck” does that mean I’m equating it, or even saying its close? No, its an analogy.

    11 maintainers from sanctioned Russian companies were removed from their position where they could submit patches without any approval required.

    My understanding is this is not true. My understanding is they are pushed to linux-next where people test and review them, and are eventually merged into the main branch after Linus reviews them, though I agree those patches are probably not reviewed as thoroughly, but there is still an approval process. My understanding is no one other than Linus can push directly to main.

    Russia could easily utilise these people to introduce insecurities. We do not need another xz utils disaster.

    Linux is not xz, each change has weeks before introduction and is much more looked at. Furthermore, the core thing, Jia Tan wasn’t a real person- these maintainers are real people. If you’re going to do a backdoor there still could be pseudonymous maintainers and contributors, those that show their face are more trust worthy. They’re at least risking losing their real names reputation.

    Stop trying to minimise what they’re doing.

    I’m not, stop insulting me. Nothing I said minimized it in any way.

    Genocide: “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”

    I think this definition is not specific enough. I would not consider ‘cultural genocide’ genocide. Genocide is the systematic slaughter of nearly everyone of a specific group with the intent to kill nearly everyone in that group. It is not the banning of a religion to destroy that religion or as China and some other countries have tried to do- encouraging or forcing reproduction with a certain ethnic group to ‘dilute the blood’. It is also not banning or repressing a language. That doesn’t mean those things aren’t ‘cultural genocide’, just that ‘cultural genocide’ and genocide are different things. To be honest, I’m not sure how to classify forced sterilization.

    Putin has been leveling entire cities.

    This itself doesn’t mean its a genocide, war crime and massacre yes of course.

    He said Ukraine isn’t a real country with a real culture.

    Yes to the first, the second though do you have a source for? (Though I would support that if he applied the same to Russian ‘culture’ but I don’t think he does sadly)

    He has been abducting children and bringing them into Russia so they grow up as Russians.

    Systemic cultural repression is bad, taking orphaned kids from their close family is bad. Adopting orphaned children itself is not itself bad, just like an American adopting a baby born in China isn’t cultural repression for them to be assimilated into American ‘culture’. I don’t know how much of it is former, and how much is the latter, but it seems like it leans towards the former rather than the latter- but there are also cases where its the latter.

    He has been altering signs, maps, etc to erase Ukrainian names.

    Okay?

    The reason I am hesitant to agree with the claim of genocide is that there are still plenty of ethnic Ukrainians living in Russian occupied territories, and they are being oppressed(even more so than others in Russian territory) but they still exist. One example, my grandma was born in Nazi occupied Czech Republic, called then on her birth certificate the “Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia”. Czechoslovak resistance assassinated the Nazi governor of the protectorate, an in revenge that Nazis killed all the adults in the town of Ležáky and in Lidice all the men and many women and children were slaughtered. This was a horrific atrocity, but I do not believe it was a genocide of Czechs because for the most part ethnic Czechs were able to live, oppressed, but still allowed to live. It would be fair to say it was a genocide of the people of Ležáky but I don’t think that counts as a “national, ethnical, racial or religious group”

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    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

      Never did either of those things.

      Yes you did.

      Why are you lying? I did not equate them

      Yes you did.

      My understanding is this is not true.

      Your understanding could be that 2+2=5, but that does not make it so.

      each change has weeks before introduction and is much more looked at.

      That is impossible to do for the thousands of patches that get applied. Which is why maintainers have to be trusted. Ones working for sanctioned Russian companies cannot be.

      They’re at least risking losing their real names reputation.

      Do you think Russia cares about that? They’re happily conscripting young men into war. If they tell a maintainer to introduce a vulnerability otherwise their family will be killed, do you really think they’ll say “No. My name will then be tarnished in the Linux circle! I’d rather let myself and my family die than let that happen!”

      I think this definition is not specific enough.

      How convenient 🇷🇺. Regardless, that is the definition.

      This itself doesn’t mean its a genocide,

      I didn’t say it alone did. I said it as part of a bunch of other things.

      Yes to the first, the second though do you have a source for?

      Go look it up yourself, sealion. It won’t take you long.

      Regardless, it’s another point in the genocide column.

      Adopting orphaned children itself is not itself bad, just like an American adopting a baby born in China isn’t cultural repression

      Of fuck off you genocide denialist.

      Forcible mass abduction of children with the specific intent of destroying Ukrainian culture is not the same as a family adopting a child who happened to have been born in another country.

      What the fuck is that equivalence? This is like your “child rape and drinking alcohol are both bad, but I don’t think the state should have the right to ban them” bullshit all over again.

      How could you be defending something like that. Christ. Nazis did this.

      Okay?

      I see the blatant attempt at destroying all Ukrainian culture (i.e. committing genocide) means nothing to you.

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      • aidan@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

        Yes you did.

        Quote it then, stop with the gaslighting, give the quote.

        Do you think Russia cares about that? They’re happily conscripting young men into war. If they tell a maintainer to introduce a vulnerability otherwise their family will be killed, do you really think they’ll say “No. My name will then be tarnished in the Linux circle! I’d rather let myself and my family die than let that happen!”

        I think that that is not an effective long term tactic. XZ relied on kilobytes of binary files to be blindly called, that sort of thing doesn’t happen in the Linux kernel. Its also not a good idea to use a real Russians working for real defense contractors if you don’t want to raise suspicion.

        How convenient 🇷🇺.

        What?

        Regardless, that is the definition.

        That is a definition.

        Go look it up yourself, sealion. It won’t take you long.

        I have that’s why I asked, I’ve seem him say that Russians and Ukrainians are one people, but not that there is no such thing as Ukrainian culture. Another question though, why are you even still responding if you’re just going to insult me? No one is going to read this far into an old thread to see you “humiliate me” and you’re not going to change my mind through insults. Is is just a convenient punching bag?

        I didn’t say it alone did. I said it as part of a bunch of other things.

        And I responded to those other things. You seem to be ignoring half of what I say.

        Of fuck off you genocide denialist.

        I’m not, and I’m not even say what’s happening in Ukraine definitely isn’t a genocide. Just with the information I have it doesn’t look like it. I was hoping you might have more information on the topic, and you somewhat did, I didn’t know about the child abduction thing.

        Forcible mass abduction of children with the specific intent of destroying Ukrainian culture is not the same as a family adopting a child who happened to have been born in another country.

        I agree, that’s why I said what I said. You know the next sentence where I specifically said they’re not the same thing.

        What the fuck is that equivalence? This is like your “child rape and drinking alcohol are both bad, but I don’t think the state should have the right to ban them” bullshit all over again.

        Where did I say child rape shouldn’t be banned? You should work for TMZ or something, because it seems like you’re great at picking out tiny snippets of sentences and ignoring the full context. I never once equated child rape and drinking alchohol. Or that child abduction is the same as adoption- seeing as I literally said that child abduction and adoption are the same thing, and this seems like its mostly child abduction.

        I see the blatant attempt at destroying all Ukrainian culture (i.e. committing genocide) means nothing to you.

        Signs are not valuable, if the Nazis invaded Poland then decided they were just going to change the signs then I don’t think they would be quite as remembered. The Nazis I’m certain did change the signs- but that is pretty insignificant thing to care about to be honest. The child abduction is far more important to focus on than signs.w

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