Comment on Honey

pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I think that’s actually a very valid point. What level of involvement in producing the food makes it vegan or not vegan? If eating honey is unethical I would think so is eating food produced by the hard work of another person.

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  • 9blb@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    What level of involvement in producing the food makes it vegan or not vegan?

    It’s about A) exploitation and B) harming the animal.

    Pollination is done by all kinds of insects, but they are part of our ecosystem and happen to be pollinating the plants that we eat. We don’t breed them, we don’t kill them (pesticides, sure), we simply coexist.

    Honey isn’t vegan because we breed the bees, take their food and often kill the entire hive because they get sick and cannot survive winter without their honey. It’s also not sustainable, because honey bees are being bred en masse and are pushing out native pollinators that are highly specialized in certain kinds of plants, causing them to go extinct.

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    • DrownedRats@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Because you mentioned killing off entire hives because they’re sick, I was wondering about what a vegans ethical stance on culling would be and what, if any, situations culls might be acceptable from a vegans perspective.

      For example, the beehive which has been infected. Bees don’t understand virology or social isolation or even the concept of “passing it on”. What do you do when a hive of infected bees breaks up and starts infecting other hives? Desieses can be devastating to local domesticated and wild swarms if left unchecked. Would a cull be acceptable in this situation to prevent more death and suffering?

      How about in areas where humans have already tinkered with the food chain and wiped out all other apex predators? In some places, controlled culling of heards of deer is necessary to prevent them from overfeeding and wiping out other species further down the food chain and eventually themselves?

      As I understand, most vegans would prefer the natural solutions such as reintroducing apex predators but that’s not always possible. Likewise, I don’t think most vegans would advocate for a dawinist solution to infected beehives.

      I’m purely asking this from a point of genuine interest and not out of any desire to be proven right or wrong so please don’t take this as any attempt at point scoring.

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    • figjam@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I think the point was that many veggies are harvested by far workers who may also be exploited. The concern about bee exploitation but not focusing on human exploitation is the rub.

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      • 9blb@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        The working class gets human rights, is able to unionize, go on strike and rise up against their oppressors.

        Animals don’t. They just get fucked.

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      • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        There is no ethical consumption, afterall. Pick the hill that works best for you, and die on it I suppose.

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    • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Sounds like it’s not the honey it’s the production system, so honey from wild bees would be vegan. Okay.

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