Comment on Telegram CEO's arrest sparks flurry of questions over motivation, privacy impact.

TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  He already left Russia a very long time ago, chased out over VK essentially.

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  • rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yet he apparently visited it a couple dozen times after he “fled” Russia. Or maybe this is misinformation.

    But anyway I wouldn’t trust Durov, because he seemed sufficiently cooperating for all the time of VK’s existence.

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    • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      For all the time of VK’s existence? He hasn’t been involved with VK since 2014, it says that literally at the top of his Wikipedia page.

      2014 is the same time that Russia’s real fascist face started to show in terms of the laws the duma was putting out internally and of course the actual invasion of Crimea and the attrocities carried out by Russia that followed. Lots of businessmen saw which way the wind was blowing and fled.

      I do not trust any billionaire asshat, least of all a tech billionaire asshat, and if you read the libertarian new age techbro drivel the guy says on his telegram announcement thingie you just know his political opinions are probably dogshit, but I don’t think he’s in open cooperation with the fucking Kremlin.

      The only suspicious thing here is the unbanning of Telegram in Russia. There’s of course the explanation that it was practically ineffective, and roskomnadzor unblocked it to save face, as they were made quite a laughing stock of at the time by the public (I am Russian originally and was still in touch with the russian internet scene back then, so this is my personal experience). But it’s also very possible they paid him off.

      I “trust” him in the sense that now that I am a resident of a five eyes nation, I would not use a western company’s service because backroom dealings will always be done and compromises will be made, much like how if I was still in Russia, I would only use west-aligned services with whom the Russian state is unlikely to deal.

      People babble on about E2EE and how there’s only metadata, but shit, you can infer a lot from metadata, depending on how extensive it is, and you will only be able to do more now with ML.

      What telegram has that other messengers don’t is a solid business model that doesn’t rely on data collection. Meta definitely does not. Signal also does not. The pressure is on them.

      If signal was usable at all I would use it, if you could send actual .gif files like a normal person in WhatsApp, I would use it, and if Matrix had more than 5 users, I’d consider it.

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      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        For all the time of VK’s existence? He hasn’t been involved with VK since 2014, it says that literally at the top of his Wikipedia page.

        OK, before 2014, so?

        2014 is the same time that Russia’s real fascist face started to show in terms of the laws the duma was putting out internally and of course the actual invasion of Crimea and the attrocities carried out by Russia that followed. Lots of businessmen saw which way the wind was blowing and fled.

        Wha-ha-ha? Not 1993, not 1996, not 1999, not 2008, but for whatever reason 2014? For fscking real.

        I’ll admit that Russian participation on the Azeri side in Artsakh in 1992 was a kinda obscure thing, and it was the weird entity called CIS troops, so one can kinda shift the blame to USSR’s convulsions.

        But the “resolution” of the constitutional crisis in 1993 was sufficiently fascist by itself.

        When bombing Grozny was considered normal, that wasn’t fascist apparently. The “counter-terrorist” activities after 1999 were not fascist apparently. The “individual of Caucasian ethnicity” stuff on TV wasn’t fascist apparently. Just Crimea was.

        I mean, admittedly 2008 is not as certain, because Saakashvili really was a jerk, he hurt that nice picture of potential democratization of any ex-USSR country quite a lot, because, you know, when spring comes, snow melts and shit shows. In case of Saakashvili the simple fact that he was basically a mafia boss, just not pro-Russian, but pro-Turkish, showed. Also closed a lot of Armenian schools in Tbilisi and pressed many Armenians out of there, and theft and destruction of Armenian heritage too mostly happened in his time.

        And it’s unclear which of the improvements in Georgia in his time were simply due to time passing and restoration after civil war, and which were due to those genial reforms people loved to praise.

        and if you read the libertarian new age techbro drivel the guy says

        It’s not libertarian in any way. His “libertarian” stuff is as sincere and thought through as his “security” stuff. Telegram is not a libertarian project. Tox would be maybe.

        The only suspicious thing here is the unbanning of Telegram in Russia. There’s of course the explanation that it was practically ineffective, and roskomnadzor unblocked it to save face, as they were made quite a laughing stock of at the time by the public

        Russian government didn’t even stop having official channels there for the duration of those supposed blocking attempts.

        They are still a laughing stock, you actually don’t need a VPN to visit things blocked in Russia (unless they block Russian users on their side), just tools like ByeDPI (runs as a local socks5 proxy, see it options descriptions for the kind of things it changes). Admittedly dumb me didn’t know this until last week.

        I am Russian originally and was still in touch with the russian internet scene back then, so this is my personal experience

        Oh. So returning to the “fascist” parts - the main reason Russian society is such shit today is because since 1993 it’s been gaslighted by its own intelligentsia and “the civilized world” to try and persuade itself that what’s happening is not fascism.

        It’s like an autistic person not noticing that they have to give their eyes rest, or take a more healthy pose, or eat something, or cover their eyes from light, or find a place more quiet, and also keeping the effort to imitate “normal” behavior.

        In 1998-1999 it went bull-blown fascist, and the real intelligentsia and opposition would squeal out loud, but some were killed, some marginalized on TV and pressed out from common discourse. Since then Russians have basically been desensitized to anything at all. And then were those fat years with some wh*res cosplaying as opposition (they still do) and everyone becoming more and more pessimistic. Until a few economic and social crises took more war to divert attention.

        Unless it’s just a power grab due to the role Telegram started playing in the information war during the war in Ukraine, in use by both sides.

        I’d say the western propaganda model is different from that of Russia, or Ukraine, or Israel, or Azerbaijan. So western countries benefit less from doing propaganda the Telegram way.

        People babble on about E2EE and how there’s only metadata, but shit, you can infer a lot from metadata, depending on how extensive it is, and you will only be able to do more now with ML.

        I suggest you read up on Signal’s protocol. It’s very rudimentary metadata.

        Anyway, “infer from metadata” is nice comparing to plaintext with encryption between client and server only.

        What telegram has that other messengers don’t is a solid business model that doesn’t rely on data collection.

        I’m not sure you can say that when they have all of the chat history and uploaded files and so on unencrypted.

        You don’t know that.

        Signal also does not.

        They are supposedly a non-profit and exist on donations.

        If signal was usable at all I would use it

        What’s not usable about it? I’ve installed it yesterday, seems not too different from WhatsApp (gifs work).

        Maybe you’ve tried it somewhere around 2017 when people like Bruce Schneier would recommend it?

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