House of J (John+Joan Mastodon), or: Five Ways the Fediverse could help to save Liberal Democracy

Comments

• ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What if we want democracy but nothing to do with Liberalism? Let’s work towards a more progressive, humanity focused social agenda. Let’s make people happy again.

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  • Ashyr@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Can you define how Liberalism is different from Progressivism? I’ve always self-identified as progressive because I don’t feel liberal democrats go far enough, but I don’t actually know what makes Liberalism distinct from something more progressive.

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    • sir_reginald@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      liberalism aligns with capitalism. most progressive are anticapitalist. sure, there are progressive liberals but they are usually perceived as not real progressives by the socialists, etc.

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    • fenndev@leminal.space ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s my (fairly uneducated) observation and understanding that liberalism is often significantly more aligned with conservatism than socialism, for example. It’s ultimately under the umbrella of ideologies that support and prop up capitalism.

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  • blue_berry@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You can have that. But I also want conservatives in the Fediverse to simulate societal debate better here. Defederation still exists, of course.

    It’s not about agreeing on everything but about finding common grounds again between opposing parties that at least share some common values.

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    • Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Why would anyone want debate with a conservative?

      They have no ideas to contribute to society.

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• SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  create an opposition to Twitter; prevent split of democratic forces; instead unite democratic forces, overcome trench warfare, show Trumpists how actual discussions look like; division of the left might be softended through this; also make unusual allies for example with neocons, traditional conservatives or yes, J.K. Rowling; the more democratic forces are in the boat, the better, the rest is solved by federation

  Nevermind that the Neocons helped build the Trump State, by dint of our government being unwilling to prosecute the War Crimes of Bush and Cheney.

  Nevermind that JK Rowling and others literally are making life more dangeous for trans people and for women. The number of women who “don’t look feminine enough” and are being harassed in bathrooms by cis men is fucking astounding.

  Anyone who even passingly suggests bullshit like this shouldn’t be taken seriously, period.

  We don’t make the world better by telling bigots that its okay to be a fucking hateful bigot.

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  • blue_berry@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m not saying that your instance needs to federate with her. But it would be good to have her as part of the Fediverse and say: look world, in the Fediverse, people can discuss things much better than on Twitter.

    That’s all I’m saying. I’m not even saying she is a good or bad person. I do think some of her statements are transphobic, but I also think she got radicalized because of the cultur war. I’m pretty sure in the Fediverse, once discussions are not heated up by algorithms, some people might become more moderate again.

    Will this be the case for Rowling? Not necessarily. But she should still be in the Fediverse.

    (Or at least at some point; counting her in this early may have been too provocative)

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    • Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No?

      Lets send an even better message, “Look world, we’re not the hateful scum who give platform to promote hate against people for how they were born”.

      Let’s make a stand and say we’re not like every moral less corpo site. That we value humans over advertising dollars and never ending growth targets.

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  • monkeyman512@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    npr.org/…/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-…

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• Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Absolutely shit takes.

  also make unusual allies for example with neocons, traditional conservatives or yes, J.K. Rowling; the more democratic forces are in the boat, the better, the rest is solved by federation)

  Do not make allies with war mongers and bigots.

  Create a space free from their shit for once, defederate from every capitalist instance, and don’t allow their companies in here.

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  • cashews_best_nut@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You may prefer Beehaw or one of the Chinese instances.

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    • Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, nah.

      I’ll take the sane middle ground between tankie and corp.

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• sir_reginald@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I don’t want to save the liberal democracy, thanks.

  Actually, I’d say the fediverse nature is pretty much contrary to liberal values, at least in the state it exists right now with most instances being maintained by volunteers and donations, not corporations (let’s obviate Threads for the moment because there’s no full federation)

  I’d say that Threads or the former Twitter allign far better with the values of liberalism, being for-profit private companies.

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  • blue_berry@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Firstly: commerzialization will come eventually anyways.

    Secondly: what has all of that to do with democracy? I would hope that the Fediverse thrives to become a democratic place.

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    • sir_reginald@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Firstly: commerzialization will come eventually anyways

      And it’s going to make the fediverse way worse.

      Secondly: what has all of that to do with democracy? I would hope that the Fediverse thrives to become a democratic place.

      I’m not sure I understand your idea of democracy. Isn’t the fediverse “democratic” already? Everyone is free to federate and defederate with anyone.

      Also, the Fediverse is currently still rather small. If it should benefit humanity as a whole, you will not be able to avoid corporations completely.

      Corporations are not humans. They use us and see us as nothing more than numbers. They don’t give a shit about people or humanity as a whole.

      I’ll make sure to block every corp I’m aware of. You’re still free to do otherwise, of course. Isn’t that democracy for you?

      Wow, that’s great. Only the thing that our society is based on for last decades with a tradition of hundreds of years. Great, down the toilet with it! Hope you got some idea with what to replace it …

      You have idealised liberalism. It only has brought crisis after crisis, provoked unnecessary wars, given birth to monstrous cynical corporations, etc.

      I’m not saying democracy is broken, just liberalism.

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• RobotToaster@mander.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  prevent split of democratic forces

  Yes, if there’s one thing the fediverse is good at, it’s preventing splitting lmao.

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  • blue_berry@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What do you mean? Sure with Nazis and Tankies I’m okay to split with permanentaly, but other instances its a dynamic, always changing process. This is much more what societal debate looks like than on Twitter/Threads currently.

    In the Fediverse, finding together is encouraged because it increases your user base. On Twitter, fight means more money for the owner, so fights and splits are encouraged there.

    So yes, Fediverse is better at simulating societal debate. It’s not about preventing splitting in the complete Fediverse (this will happen anyways), its about preventing a split of democratic forces into tribes that fight each other and don’t manage to unite.

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