Submitted 2 days ago by DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf to fediverse@lemmy.world
Given the US recently made a bid to fast-track multiple censorship bills, KOSA included, which could pose an existential threat to Fediverse instances hosted over the clearnet, how feasible would it be to host said instances over Tor/I2P?
It would work just fine within TOR. Reaching out would be a massive pain as the software is not ready.
I’ve set up the “old” UI - no javascript - on TOR on lemmy.cafe. It works well, but that’s not a real hidden service, as such.
Javascript will be an issue
That’s just a frontend issue. You can have clients that don’t try to do regular polling.
Having reliable activitypub federation is going to be a much harder challenge. The server to server protocol has a bunch of assumptions that are not true for tor and i2p.
And unless you want the entire network to become a CSAM and Nazi cespool, you would also need a reliable way of identifying servers, which defeats the purpose.
The server to server protocol has a bunch of assumptions that are not true for tor and i2p.
Could you please elaborate just a bit? I’m a web dev, but haven’t looked into fediverse protocols yet.
APIs should work, though. So unless the instance needs some kinda captcha or other client-side challenge, e.g. for registration, people could presumably use apps with it.
However, in my experience, not many social-media-adjacent apps support setting a custom proxy, even though modern network libraries should make it a no-brainer. E.g. few Matrix clients support that, and ones that do aren’t much of an eye candy (and have problems with the initial setup of the encryption, which seems to be a pervasive issue with Matrix).
Not feasible.
Just use an instance that is outside USA and not using a USA hosting company? Half the fediverse uses Hetzner, for example. OVH (French) is another popular provider.
Of course it’s feasible. Easy? Maybe not.
Good recommendations though.
I took the question to be “could you currently host fedi servers on the dark web, without any big changes to their code” but yeah I’m sure it’s possible to make it happen, if people wanted to put in the work.
I’d probably choose somewhere outside of France. Hetzner probably a better bet.
Yes, it is feasible and such instances already exist.
For example, you can run a Mitra instance on Tor, I2P or Yggdrasil. It is a lightweight micro-blogging server similar to Mastodon:
https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra
Tor / I2P docs:
- https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra/src/branch/main/docs/onion.md
- https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra/src/branch/main/docs/i2p.md
While it isn’t easy for Matrix, running an quivalent XMPP server on Tor, I2P or similar is fairly well documented, and there are multiple such servers accessible both on the clearnet and Tor.
NGL I tried setting up an xmpp server with i2p once and it confused the fk out of me.
I've heard of TOR, not of I2P. Are they both programs to anonymise other programs? I didn't know it was possible to anonymise an entire instance! Would be cool if that were possible.
I2P is like Tor but peer-to-peer and as a result more decentralized, IIRC.
I believe I2P is more for things like torrents.
I’ve been meaning to test it out (I seem to remember that it’s possible to run it side by side), but haven’t got a chance yet.
I didn’t know it was possible to anonymise an entire instance
I mean, that works pretty much like any server on the web, now that most communication is done via http. However, websockets, http/2 and /3 might break, I guess, when they expect a continuous connection.
I don't know what any of those terms mean. If it were easy, wouldn't it have been done already?
Wouldnt that mean that users would also have to use tor? Thats not going to happen…
Who cares about them? Even if it was easier to use, they still wouldn’t use it because they want to be monitored.
It might if they’re censored off the clearnet.
i feel like you may not really understand how basic the average user is.
for example, most have never even been near people who know what tor is. and as the technical-info proxy for an absurd number of humans the number of people asking me how to be 'uncensored' on the internet is zero. its fucking zero.
github.com/agabani/tor-operator I’ve keep wanting to add something like this to a cluster and hosting those services behind a Tor proxy
slazer2au@lemmy.world 1 day ago
From a technical pov nothing is stopping it. Tor addresses are valid domains names and you can run your own fediverse in those networks. The problem becomes when you want clearnet instances to send you content. As they aren’t running in tor or i2p they can’t send you stuff.
The other problem is exit nodes are fairly well known for being the source of bad shit and many instances will block them as part of their anti spam/bot setup
SlurpingPus@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A server can run on both the clearnet and darknet simultaneously, but indeed I don’t think that works that well if the server name is the identifier for an instance — since it would be different between the networks.