Is (Matrix) Element Server Suite overkill for a dozen users?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Yaky@slrpnk.net⁩ to ⁨selfhosting@slrpnk.net⁩

Hi fellow self-hosters! Has anyone ran Element Server Suite or updated their existing Synapse to include Element Call? How many users do you have?

I have been running Matrix Synapse server on a 1 CPU 1 GB RAM VPS for about 5 years. Just a few close people and a WhatsApp bridge (also for just a few people who use that). It worked fairly well.

Now that Element took over many of the Matrix things, they are expanding the server architecture and bundling the server install as Element Server Suite. The Community Edition is said to be aimed at “small to mid-sized deployments (1–100 users)”, but looking at the architecture and requirements… the setup requires Kubernetes (!), at least 2 CPUs and 2 GB RAM, a handful of services, each with their own sub-domain.

Is this corporatesque setup overkill for only a handful of users, or is this my inner Luddite talking? For comparison, Snikket (bundled XMPP server that provides very similar functionality) requires only 128MB RAM. Not sure if it’s worth it trying to set up Element Call alongside existing Synapse, starting over with ESS, or going to Snikket.

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mistermodal@lemmy.ml ⁨29⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
My advice with Matrix server hosting is don’t. You’ll see

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tenchiken@anarchist.nexus ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I would suggest instead looking into the deployment via the very thorough system here:

https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy

It may seem a little overwhelming at first due to the large list of options, but underneath it boils down to some simple variables in a file. Once complete, you can then add/remove components merely with a small edit and redeploy.

I’ve been using this for about a year, after manually doing the systems for Element and Synapse for a few years before that and HATING how kludgy things seemed.

Once on the Ansible deploy from above, features just work. It’s been a night vs day difference without trying to convince you to pay money any time you go into an interface.

My few users (about 2 dozen) regularly do group calls via the newer Element Call stuff (RTC) and even with a high-latency connection from one of the users using satellite internet, things work smoothly.

XMPP / Snikket might be a better fit for your needs, but I wanted to make sure you had a chance to try out the better solution for implementing Synapse (or other Matrix servers!) before just judging by the problematic corporate deployment.

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thagoat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I just switched to snikket from matrix in the last 2 weeks. I ran a matrix server for 6 years, for just 3 users. Snikket works perfectly, and the phone apps work so well without the need to constantly authenticate with a second device. Just log in.

XMPP is a stable protocol. And snikket has ssl certs, audio/video calling, and media uploads baked right in.

Give it a try on a modest vps and I don’t think you will be disappointed. I’m sure happy with it.

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- signaleleven@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Dio you run any bridge (I forget the XMPP nomenclature). One of the reasons I run matrix (synapse) myself is to have a single interface for many instant-message platforms. I’ve been looking into migrating to XMPP (im sure my matrix deployment can be slimmed down but for now it’s a behemoth taking 4 GB of RAM…) but I’ve been somewhat discouraged by the process
  
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  - hydroxyl@freeradical.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    @signaleleven can you describe how you bridge matrix to other spaces and what's the use case? can it be bridged from/to matrix? thx @thagoat
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  - Yaky@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Same for me, I initially went with Matrix for the bridges.
    
    I think for XMPP it’s gateway or transport, Slidge author (Nicoco) has developed some in the last year.
    
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- Yaky@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Why did you switch? I went from Matrix to XMPP around 2019 since Riot/RiotX (matrix client) at the time would not get notifications in time and/or was a battery hog. And then went back to Matrix when it seemed more stable, to avoid messing with prosody configs.
  
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  - thagoat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Apps had notification problems, and crashes. My gf stopped getting pictures unless she was on home wifi. Just weirdness. I set up another instance with docker on a different server, and that worked better, but 8 was tired of the silliness. Those were the main reasons I switched. I’m also a tinkerer, so I enjoy trying new projects.
    
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jimmy90@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
i’ve been running it for 2 users for a very long time

frankly it’s a bit of a pain to setup but it works and it doesn’t need 2 cpus and 2 gb ram

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stratself@lemdro.id ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I think it’s better hooking up Element Call to your current setup, and remove Element Web if you can BYO client.

For a more lightweight alternative, I personally find continuwuity to be reasonably stable for the specs you mentioned. It does admin tasks in an #admins room, use an embedded database, and has no client UI so less containers needed. So continuwuity + EC should be able to run under the constraints you mentioned

The lightest would still be any XMPP server, though its functionality does differ from Matrix overall

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SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
been using snikket for a year or so. it is pretty slick

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- Yaky@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Any hidden nuances that one has to know for Snikket nowadays?
  
  E.g. with Matrix Synapse, user accounts cannot be deleted via API, DB accumulates hundreds of thousands of records in state_groups_state taking up space, and for client-side, onboarding is a pain
  
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  - SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    not that i can think of? i pop over to look at storage space every so often and it doesn’t look like it’s growing very much.
    
    inviting people is easy, directly from the android app.
    
    the snikket app itself is pretty straightforward. The only thing I would caution is telling people using the chat service to make sure their encryption button is checked or whatever.
    
    there are other apps that work with this, the one i use on android is conversations.
    
    i haven’t had to delete users yet, but that sort of thing is done directly at the home page with admin login.
    
    I had tried to use the Ansible playbook to get a matrix server up and running and failed for about a week straight before trying out Snicket and was texting with my mom across the country in an hour
    
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ALERT@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I’ve got mine for myself only so no

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normis@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Not really understanding what problem you are trying to solve, but I have a 50 people Matrix server on Conduit, it’s running great, uses minimal resources and takes just minutes to set up. All clients support it and I haven’t seen any missing features yet.

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