Submitted 1 month ago by m_f@discuss.online to fediverse@lemmy.world
https://discuss.online/pictrs/image/32b020e6-5fb2-4463-9e06-8bcc687c59b0.png
Is it any service that includes the ability to federate? If so, are Matrix/XMPP/other non-ActivityPub services part of the Fediverse, or does Fediverse really just mean ActivityPub?
The context is wanting to promote a Matrix chat room on discuss.online: #online.discuss:discuss.online (see post). Does it belong in Lemmy communities like this one, !fedigrow@lemm.ee, etc? Or does it not count as part of the Fediverse?
Matrix and XMPP are federated but not part of the Fediverse, which revolves around ActivityPub. While they share the principle of decentralization, the Fediverse specifically connects platforms like Mastodon or Lemmy via ActivityPub. Promoting a Matrix room in Lemmy communities might align with shared values but doesn’t make Matrix part of the Fediverse. Bridging these ecosystems is possible but not inherent.
I think by now pretty much everyone here heard about Matrix at some point or another.
Personally I think Matrix and XMPP belong go the Fediverse in the loose sense. ActivityPub isn’t designed for messaging, and they offer good protocols for that.
So … not the combined works (verses) of the famous poet Fedy?
According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse:
The majority of Fediverse platforms are based on free and open-source software, and create connections between servers using the ActivityPub protocol. Some software still supports older federation protocols as well, such as OStatus, the Diaspora protocol and Zot. Diaspora* is the only actively developed software project classified under the original definition of Fediverse that does not support ActivityPub.[5][6]
You would have to look at those citations to see how authoritative they are.
Its a series of tubes
The fediverse originally had nothing to do with ActivityPub. Diaspora and ostatus were, and still are a part of it.
Although, the term seems to typically fixate on social networking.
If anyone asks me this, I’m going to tell them I don’t know but I’m figuring it out.
ExtravagantEnzyme@lemm.ee 1 month ago
So, the term Fediverse basically refers to the ActivityPub protocol and the associated server software. Technically, it’s not just ActivityPub, but also the AT protocol and nostr. But another layer to the Fediverse, at least in my mind, is having some federation. Meaning Bluesky isn’t apart of the Fediverse, even though it’s built on the AT Protocol, because of it’s isolation. Since there’s no interaction with Lemmy, Mastodon, PixelFed, or other federated social networks, it’s not part of the Fediverse.
breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 1 month ago
I think that ATP and nostr are sometimes included as part of the Fediverse because they both have bridges that allow connection. Without the bridges they’re isolated.
Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
ATP still requires millions to host a relay theverge.com/…/free-our-feeds-social-media-ecosys…
poVoq@slrpnk.net 1 month ago
XMPP also has a working ActivityPub bridge. But I think at some point these bridges are a bridge too far.
Software like Friendica or Hubzilla that can speak multiple protocols including AP are clearly part of the Fediverse, but things that need 3rd party bridges IMHO are not, as the creators clearly do no intend them to be part of it. Otherwise Xhitter would be also part of the Fediverse as bridges exist(ed in the past at least).
m_f@discuss.online 1 month ago
It seems like you’d say that Matrix isn’t included? It’s not ActivityPub/AT/nostr
frisbeedude@feddit.org 1 month ago
Matrix is not federated, is has nothing to do with the whole ActivityThing. They are two separate universes. Maybe there are bridges that I don’t know of, but eseentially they are not interconnected.
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 1 month ago
“federation” implies deep interconnect, a “bridge” on the otherhand is an artificial architecture of connection along narrow fragile terms.
Just because you build a bridge to the fediverse doesn’t mean you are really part of the vibrant, free core of the fediverse city center, you are just mooching out or at best trying to arrange an alliance.
When two things federate on the fediverse it is like there being two cool places in a city where there are a million different ways to connect those two places together, often in surprising and novel ways that people didn’t necessarily see.
A city of bridges is not a city.
So like, cool Bluesky has a bridge here now, I hope it doesn’t get knocked out by a freak act of nature I mean enshittification…