Comment on Israel Is Buying Google Ads to Discredit the UN’s Top Gaza Aid Agency

deegeese@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• Monomate@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “It’s arguable whether there’s a genocide taking place. If Israel really wanted to eliminate everyone—civilians and Hamas alike—they’d have already done so, and from an operational point of view, it would be much easier and take less effort than targeted attacks.”

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  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It’s arguable whether there’s a genocide taking place

    I love it when I know from the first sentence that there’s some awful apologia coming up… 🤦

    If Israel really wanted to eliminate everyone

    That’s a CHILD’S definition of genocide.

    The ACTUAL definition from the convention itself is thus, first paragraph bolding mine:

    any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

    • • (a) Killing members of the group;

    • (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

    • © Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

    • (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

    • (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    — Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[\[8\]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#cite_note-Convention-text-8)
    

    Using Redefining the word ‘genocide’ so easily disingenuously and/or out of ignorance really takes away from the weight scope of the term atrocities, unnecessarily defending the indefensible

    Fixed It for you.

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    • Monomate@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Your own link states that “in part” definitions may lead to highly subjective conclusions.

      By this measure, the death penalty in the US would be considered genocide “in part” (especially if the judge, jurors, or clerks are mostly white and the executed person is of color, so as to establish that a “group” is targeting another group). A person acting in self-defense with a resulting death to the aggressor may also fall into the genocide criteria.

      If Israel is only intent on destroying the Hamas terrorist organization (it is technically a political party, but they broadened their horizons on October 7th, I guess…), and not the whole Gazan/Palestinian population, could it really still be labeled as genocide? As I said, some people will even say a single death may be genocide “in part,” so this widening of the definition just weakens the term, unfortunately.

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      • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Yes, if you redefine the death penalty into being genocide, it is genocide, and if you shift the narrative onto a fictional, you can make it not be about genocide.

        Brilliant points …

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      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Your own link states that “in part” definitions may lead to highly subjective conclusions.

        Yeah, that part means that you don’t have to kill every single Palestinian in order for your deliberate eradicative campaign to be a genocide. It doesn’t mean “killing any part of a people is genocide” 🤦

        By this measure, the death penalty in the US would be considered genocide “in part” (especially if the judge, jurors, or clerks are mostly white and the executed person is of color, so as to establish that a “group” is targeting another group). A person acting in self-defense with a resulting death to the aggressor may also fall into the genocide criteria

        Nope. Of COURSE not. I’m almost completely convinced that you’re arguing in bad faith. That or you’re extremely literal-minded AND not too smart… These are not difficult concepts for most people to understand and differentiate once it’s pointed out to them.

        If Israel is only intent on destroying the Hamas terrorist organization

        Yeah, that’s a negative. They’re trying to kill or displace away from the area every single Gazan and they’re already at over 90% displacement.

        it is technically a political party, but they broadened their horizons on October 7th, I guess…

        No, it’s a terrorist organization masquerading as a government. Critical infrastructure such as schools and hospitals are de facto run by UNRWA, not Hamas.

        and not the whole Gazan/Palestinian population

        That IS their actual target. Your Hasbara hypothetical isn’t helpful.

        could it really still be labeled as genocide?

        In that purely hypothetical scenario, whether it’s still a genocide would depend on a number of factors, including whether or not they take great care to avoid civilian casualties and only target known Hamas targets. They don’t, never have, and never will.

        As I said, some people will even say a single death may be genocide “in part,”

        Nobody not arguing in bad faith, profoundly confused/ignorant, or colossally dense. Since I gave you the definition, it’s either bad faith or stupidity in your case.

        so this widening of the definition just weakens the term, unfortunately.

        No, it’s not a widening. It’s a specifying that you don’t have to successfully eliminate everyone for it to be a genocide. A distinction that most adults not arguing in bad faith have no trouble comprehending.

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      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Israel has been and still is targeting civilians, children, aid workers, hospitals, Refugee camps, ect. They have been explicit in their genocidal intent and actions. Hundreds of genocide scholars has recognized it as a genocide.

        Repeated evacuation orders, where somehow millions of people are supposed to evacuate in a mere 24 hours with no cell service, electricity, food, or water, is blatant ethnic cleansing

        Israel has repeatedly bombed evacuation routes, places outside the evacuation zones, and ‘safe’ zones?

        Considered ‘safer zones’ by Israel, since a Safe Zone has an international definition that Israel fails to meet.

        Israel deliberately targets civilian areas as Power Targets:

        Although it is unprecedented for the Israeli army to attack more than 1,000 power targets in five days, the idea of causing mass devastation to civilian areas for strategic purposes was formulated in previous military operations in Gaza, honed by the so-called “Dahiya Doctrine” from the Second Lebanon War of 2006.

        • ‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza - 972mag

        On top of the use of Lavender and Where’s Daddy which intentionally bomb whole families and civilians

        Israel has repeatedly refused any permanent ceasefire, and continues to prolong the talks by rejecting even the US/UN ceasefire and continually add unacceptable terms to prolong the ongoing genocide.

        Hundreds of Genocide Scholars have described this ethnic cleansing campaign as genocide because of the deliberate targeting of children/civilians and expressed intent by Israeli officials.

        So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.

        “A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

        Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated

        AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC

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  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It’s only arguable if you’re arguing for genocide.

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    • Monomate@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I thought our society had moved beyond viewing the world in such a dogmatic way. It’s like you’re saying, “Agree with me, or you’re a heathen!”

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      • deegeese@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Fuck off with false equivalence you friend of butchers.

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      • redisdead@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        It’s literally a by the books genocide so, in this particular cases, yes, trying to pretend it’s not is basically defending genocide.

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  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, no, sorry bud, it’s genocide. Just because it’s not overt genocide does not mean it’s not a thing. It’s not just happening in Gaza, it’s happening in the West Bank, here is Stephen Colbert talking about it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqK3_n6pdDY

    Just because they have more of an excuse in Gaza to do it much more flagrantly doesn’t mean it isn’t happening throughout Israel. Covert genocide, it’s a thing.

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