Comment on Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?

• woelkchen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It should be a setting to always use encrypted chat, and it should probably prompt you when you first login.

  I don’t disagree but the claim that you quoted was that it’s complicated to initiate and as I explained it’s not.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If you have to enable it every time, it’s complicated enough that most people won’t bother. Maybe they’ll do it once or twice out of novelty, but it’s not going to become a habit.

    I only consider something “encrypted” if it’s actually encrypted by default, or at least prompts to enable it permanently on first launch. Otherwise, it’s not an “encrypted” chat, it just has the option to have some chats encrypted.

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    • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      annoying != complicated

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      • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        More steps required to perform something is very squarely within the definition of complicated, no matter how straightforward those steps are.

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    • woelkchen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If you have to enable it every time, it’s complicated

      But you don’t. As I already explained: secret chats stay in the messages list, so you can go back to an initiated secret chat and pick up there without any additional fiddling.

      I have plenty of encrypted chats that I don’t have to enable every time I want to send one. I don’t understand where this misconception comes from.

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      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Surely you talk to more than one or two people, no? If you have to manually check a box or something every time you start a new message with someone, people are going to stop doing it.

        It’s not an encrypted chat app. It’s an unencrypted chat app that has an option for encrypted chats. Whether something is encrypted or not depends on how most people use it and what the defaults are.

        Signal is an encrypted chat app. E2EE is the default and AFAIK only behavior. Telegram can be encrypted, but it’s not by default, and defaults matter.

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  • brrt@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Is it more complicated to achieve than in other e2ee messengers? Yes, thus saying it is complicated is justified.

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• oktoberpaard@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They’ve implemented it in such a way that you only have access to an encrypted chat on a single device, so no syncing between devices. Syncing E2EE chats across devices is more difficult to pull off, but it’s definitely possible and other services do that by default.

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  • pressanykeynow@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Syncing E2EE chats across devices is more difficult to pull off, but it’s definitely possible and other services do that by default.

    That’s because if you are able to get your private key on another device, then Google, Apple or Microsoft also have access to your private key. And you don’t have e2ee.

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• Kekzkrieger@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  its some message for the users, having a secret chat kinda sounds bad, like doing something illegal and guilt trapping users into not using it

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• 30p87@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  But then you couldn’t get that juicy user and conversation data.

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• pressanykeynow@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I don’t see a reason to not have everything E2EE all the time.

  You probably didn’t ever meet non-IT person(or most of the IT people). To use e2ee means you need to keep your private key close and safe. 99.999% people can’t do that. So when they lost their key their conversation history is gone and it’s your fault not theirs.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Signal does this by having your data be unencrypted at rest on your device, and I think that’s a reasonable tradeoff because it protects the most import part: data in transit. Or you can be like Matrix and require/strongly encourage setting up multiple clients so you always have a fallback (e.g. desktop and phone). There are reasonable technical solutions to the problem of making an E2EE chat system.

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• GBU_28@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As I understand it, public groups use server side encryption (so not robust), but private chats use e2e encryption that is client side. (More robust)

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