Comment on MBFC Credibility - High

ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Pre-emptive” and “self-defense” are objectively true here.

  Is it opposite day already? Better get my festive sash!

  Hezbollah initiated its current conflict with Israel

  According to the IDF and American intelligence who came to the conclusion within an hour arter the attack, have shown no proof to support the claim and both have a history of false conclusions and outright fabrications when it suits their pro-Israel narrative.

  Israel is fighting defensively

  Nope. There’s no defensive way to bomb civilian targets. That’s not how the word or indeed the world works.

  destruction of Hezbollah assets prevents future attacks on Israel.

  On the contrary: Hezbollah is a terrorist group.

  Just like with Hamas in Gaza, every Lebanese civilian murdered by the IDF makes Hezbollah more influential and thus more powerful as the number of people radicalized by the murder of their loved ones rises.

  You can’t bomb a terrorist organization out of existence any more than you can make your neighbors like you by killing their parents.

  You might believe that Hezbollah is justified in attacking Israel

  Nope. Not at all.

  Israel is still the defender

  Also no, though. Their actions and their unconditional US support is the number one cause of political instability and violence in the Middle East.

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  • nonailsleft@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    According to the IDF and American intelligence who came to the conclusion within an hour arter the attack, have shown no proof to support the claim and both have a history of false conclusions and outright fabrications when it suits their pro-Israel narrative.

    Uh no, according to Hezbollah themselves. Unless of course you believe the Hezbollah leadership are all Mossad plants

    Nope. There’s no defensive way to bomb civilian targets. That’s not how the word or indeed the world works.

    There were 3 deaths on the Lebanese side: 2 Hezbollah fighters and 1 from an associated

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    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Uh no, according to Hezbollah themselves

      Gonna need a source on that.

      There were 3 deaths on the Lebanese side: 2 Hezbollah fighters and 1 from an associated

      Sounds EXTREMELY unlike how the IDF tends to operate. Gonna need a reliable source on that one too.

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      • nonailsleft@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hezbollah-says-when-time-comes-any-action-we-will-carry-it-out-2023-10-13/

        Hezbollah deputy chief Naim Qassem said on Friday that the group would not be swayed by calls for it to stay on the sidelines of the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, saying the party was “fully ready” to contribute to the fighting.

        https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-hezbollah-targets-lebanon-military-says-2024-08-25/

        Hezbollah said the strikes killed two of its fighters in al-Tiri. The Hezbollah-allied Shi’ite Muslim group Amal said a strike on Khiam killed one of its fighters.

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• Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You cannot “pre-emptively” defend yourself, an attack to head off a suspected attack is still an attack.

  Other than that semantic nitpick, personally I’m there with you… However, you cannot seriously be pointing this out without also recognizing that Israel is very much the initial offender in any conflict that arises as direct result of their actions in gaza.

  If I let a bully sucker punch me so I have an excuse to beat up all the people around them, and then someone else close by hits me, I can’t honestly say I am the one who is defending myself.

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  • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Of course pre-emotive defense is possible. If someone waves a weapon at me and repeatedly threatens to kille me, self defense is warranted. Especially if that attacker has a history of violently attacking me.

    You can shoot someone in self defense before you get shot yourself.

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  • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think the purpose of the word “pre-emptive” is to describe a situation where one side appears to attack first but that side is actually acting to prevent an attack against itself. Consider a less controversial situation: Ukraine launched drones into Russia in order to blow up glide bombs in storage at Russian airbases. I suppose that could be described as a “pre-emptive attack” but I still see it as an act of self-defense.

    With regard to your second point: Hezbollah has agency. They weren’t just helplessly carried along by events in Gaza; they chose to get involved. Their choice was predictable, but it was still theirs. One could argue that it was justified (and Hezbollah would certainly argue that it was justified) but justification is a matter of opinion and even if an attack is considered justified, the defender is still, well, defending.

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• Linkerbaan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Israel attacked Lebanon not the other way around.

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  • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Do you live under a rock? Hezbollah has fired rockets at Israel starting on October 7th and hasn’t stopped since.

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    • hoch@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Right? They’ve been cruisin’ for a bruisin’ for a long time. I really don’t care what happens to them.

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• brianary@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This is some George W Bush doublespeak.

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