Participation in any community demands some level of censorship or else there would literally be CP on youtube. The problem is that the decision making behind the administration of censorship should be better democratized instead of being decided by advertiser’s attempting to divine the median consumer’s level of tolerance.
Comment on Indigenous creators are clashing with YouTube’s and Instagram’s sensitive content bans.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right. Fuck the censors.
buttfarts@lemy.lol 4 weeks ago
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
I agree, I was overly broad with this comment. But I think that even community management needs to be constrained from interfering with human expression when there is no harm being done. And non-sexual nudity is clearly not harmful.
buttfarts@lemy.lol 4 weeks ago
Well said. It’s impossible to be a free speech absolutist without condoning some pretty heinous forms of human expression. But you’re right that the proper ethical yardstick is whether any meaningful human expression causes demonstrable harm.
Non-sexual nudity is definitely not harmful.
IndiBrony@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Again remember that freedom of expression is freedom to not be punished by the government for that expression.
Private companies are not concerned with your freedoms.
Not saying I agree with that stance, just saying how it is.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
I’m saying it is a fundamental human right regardless of the law. What clothing to wear (or not) is part of that freedom.
Private companies should also not restrict fundamental freedoms. I’m aware they’re allowed to currently.
Arkouda@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
The content creators freedom to express directly opposes the hosts freedom of affiliation. Not that I want to defend either company but they do have the right to say what is and is not allowed in their spaces using the same idea of “fundamental human rights”.
It is either that or we have to agree that “fundamental human rights” cannot exist because one groups rights can override the other on social whim.
Every other creator on the planet has to abide by these rules if they want to remain on these platforms and every creator has an option not to use them.
grue@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Real people’s rights trump fake corporate “people’s” rights every single time.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
Frankly, I was mostly mouthing off here, not trying to voice deep moral reasoning but I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I’m actually not sure that fundamental human rights do exist—at least not in all circumstances. As you point out, they sometimes conflict and we need to adjudicate whose rights are more fundamental in a given circumstance.
You have a good point and I generally agree that there does exist a tension here. I think where it breaks down is when a platform becomes so large and dominant that there isn’t really any significant alternative. I think morally, this shifts my reasoning away from just a collection of individuals deciding what they want on their platform towards an almost state-like entity. And with that power dynamic I am much more skeptical of their unilateral authority to control what is or isn’t posted on their platform. Given the size and structure of YouTube, it makes more sense to think of it as space that belongs to and should be managed by the community and with respect for individual rights of expression. And I feel strongly that non-sexual nudity is not only not harmful, but that it is very harmful to repress, as we see in this specific example.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
The issue is that when companies are able to get large enough to control the virtual town square, them censoring people has the same impact as the government censoring people. And especially given the fact that they’re all companies held by literally millions of people, who don’t get input into the speech allowed on the platform, allowing them the “freedom” to restrict speech how they see fit doesn’t make sense.
You don’t have the option to not use major platforms and have your voice heard, because they’ve done the work to make it virtually impossible.
Wanderer@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
I know what you meant and I agree.
For some reason Americans only understand something and can have an opinion it if it is written in their constitution.
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
I think a big part of it is trauma from trump and his enablers. Honestly, a few years ago my sentiments might have been more similar to the people criticizing me but more thought made me realize how dangerous it is to leave this power in a small number of unaccountable people.
MikeOxlong@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
Won’t one party always have restricted freedom of expression in this situation? The private company wants to express themselves freely by curating the content on their social media platform. The individuals wants to express themselves by posting material of themselves with less clothes than the company wants. These both seem to me as entities wanting to express themselves freely. Which freedom are you most willing to limit?
And if you argue that the freedom of an individual should be valued more than the freedom of a private company, should individual people owning websites have their freedom of curation/expression limited?
LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 4 weeks ago
I think these mega-platforms are way too different from an individual’s website to make that equivalence. The dominant social media companies are, as Elon Musk eloquently put it before shitting all over his own moral principles, more akin to a town square than a back yard. The fact that they are privately owned is a corruption resulting from our authoritarian legal structure—it doesn’t make them morally equivalent to a website I use and produce by myself.
YouTube is a place that tolerates almost any viewpoint or type of content. No one thinks that they actively support or endorse this content. In fact, the law explicitly exempts them from being responsible for it. If that’s the case, why should we grant them the authority to decide what should or shouldn’t be posted there?
Now, there is certainly content, in contrast to non-sexual nudity that does direct harm, and I support the removal of such content. But either way, I don’t think YouTube deserves the unilateral authority to decide what that looks like. I’d much rather see it managed communally and democratically.