Comment on What do you think of Ro's decision? Are the Maquis doing the right thing?

ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You could say the exact same thing about the Cardassians.

  The Maquis are trying to undermine a peace treaty full of compromises.

  Yes you could. Which is why they ended up with a compromise for both the Cardassians and the Federation, to create a fragile peace that can be maintained if both parts accept the compromises each on ceded.

  I don’t see any good way to fill in the blank where “forced relocation is fine when _____” is the sentence.

  “forced relocation is fine when you set up base there about 20 years ago, you will get more than handsomely rewarded with an equal or bigger piece of land on a different planet and not be inconvenienced, and it is to stop an interplanetary war.”

  original

  • ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    you set up base there about 20 years ago

    For the sake of argument, how many years is the cutoff that flips it from “fine” to “evil”?

    you will get more than handsomely rewarded with an equal or bigger piece of land on a different planet and not be inconvenienced

    Citation needed? I don’t think that was ever stated, and “Journey’s End” is actually pretty clear about a new home having not even been identified.

    it is to stop an interplanetary war.

    The Federation and the Cardassians were not at war when the treaty was signed…

    original

    • Skullgrid@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The Federation and the Cardassians were not at war when the treaty was signed…

      According to the fictional storyline of the Star Trek universe, the Maquis were formed in the 24th century after a peace treaty was enacted between the United Federation of Planets and the Cardassian Union, redesignating the demilitarized zone between the two powers, which resulted in the Federation ceding several of their colony worlds to the Cardassians. Although the colonists were offered free relocation to elsewhere in Federation territory, some insisted on remaining on the ceded worlds; effectively becoming subject to the Cardassian Union, which behaves aggressively towards them. Some of these colonists subsequently formed the Maquis to protect themselves from Cardassian aggression, due to a lack of official support from the Federation; who feared breaking the peace treaty with the Cardassians, which would lead to war.

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(Star_Trek)#Storylin…

      Bruh we’re on an internet board. You really want to split hairs about the fine details of fake politics?

      For the sake of argument, how many years is the cutoff that flips it from “fine” to “evil”?

      Multiple lifetimes having passed. As in, two sentient lifebeing lifespans, to the point where the original migration is completely removed from living memory. This isn’t “all the colonists knew from the moment they were born” this is “We set up that well 10 years ago, and we barely got to use it”. You worked as an agreement with an organisation, that has now had to adjust to harsh realities, and you also need to do so.

      Citation needed? I don’t think that was ever stated, and “Journey’s End” is actually pretty clear about a new home having not even been identified.

      Picard and Deanna Troi are on Dorvan V, conducting the initial meeting with the Tribal Council. Picard tells the Native American leaders that there is very little he can do to change the situation, as the decision was made at the very highest level of Starfleet. Anthwara, the leader of the tribe on Dorvan V, resists Picard’s attempt to convince them to relocate. Troi offers the suggestion of other available planets to colonize with similar environmental conditions, as well as their help in getting settled immediately. Anthwara responds saying that the environmental conditions themselves are not the basis of their location, but, rather, that the mountains the rivers and the sky welcomed them.

      …fandom.com/…/Journey's_End_(episode)

      My interpretation of the events is that eventually the butt of a Cardassian rifle is going to welcome it’s new home in the heads of one of these native american settlers, and they are going to lament their choices.

      original

      • ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        You really want to split hairs about the fine details of fake politics?

        It’s sort of the point of the thread, so it seems a little odd to suddenly try to make it sound silly.

        My interpretation of the events is that eventually the butt of a Cardassian rifle is going to welcome it’s new home in the heads of one of these native american settlers, and they are going to lament their choices.

        This interpretation is completely correct, but it sidesteps the two fundamental questions.

        Do the colonists have the right to refuse to leave (I think you’ve made your position in that clear), and if so, do they have the right to defend themselves when the Cardassians violate the terms that they agreed to and tried to drive them off those worlds?

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