The controversy is this. Do we REALLY want to vote for Trump who is going to take away our freedoms, dismantle democracy and probably won’t do anything to stop the genocide in Gaza anyway? Or are we going to vote for the candidate that definitely won’t stop the genocide in Gaza but will at least ensure we maintain a democracy? Its not a good choice either way but I’m voting for whichever candidate isn’t Trump no matter what. I have my own life to look out for.
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Lianodel@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
It’s extremely frustrating to hold the apparently controversial opinion that killing civilians is, consistently, a bad thing.
PenisWenisGenius@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
RedditRefugee69@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Let’s not forget that trump supported the move of Israel’s capital to goddamn Jerusalem
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
So Hamas killing civilians is a bad thing too? Gonna start calling out people showing support for Hamas at protests?
Lianodel@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
So Hamas killing civilians is a bad thing too?
Yes, obviously. Why do you ask? Since you asked, I may as well ask, is Israel killing civilians a bad thing?
Gonna start calling out people showing support for Hamas at protests?
Sure, if you see them, kick them to the curb. Do you agree that there’s a difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas?
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Do you agree that there’s a difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas?
Hard to tell at this point. Hamas flags, people cosplaying as Hamas, people saying October 7 was justified. Antisemitism is becoming more and more commonplace. Protests at synagogues, attacks on Jewish businesses.
The Palestinian movement hasn’t made a whole lot of effort in clearly denouncing Hamas. If it were a non-violent resistance movement, then I wouldn’t hesitate to support it. But it’s not a non-violent movement.
I’ve had many conversations with Palestinian supporters on Lemmy and they’ve convinced me it’s a fascist movement. Almost the exact same conversations as I’ve had with MAGAs, just with a different target for their hatred.
Lianodel@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
Alright.
Firstly, I think a lot of how you’re framing the pro-Palestine protests is either unfair or inaccurate. That’s not to say that you are being unfair or inaccurate, but the sources where you get your information might be. (I will agree that antisemitism is on the rise, and demands a response. I just see more of it from the right, even from Zionists who either want to remove diasporic Jews or support a model of an ethnostate). So, if you don’t draw a distinction between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas, there’s no conversation to be had, because we’re not really dealing with what protestors do, say, or believe. While you compared this to MAGA, it’s the exact same rhetoric used by MAGA to attack BLM, which itself mirrored the rhetoric used against the Civil Rights Movement.
But it’s also not worth getting into the weeds unless we can find some common ground, so I’d like to ask you the same question again: Is it bad when Israel kills civilians?
ssj2marx@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Operation Al-Aqsa Flood came after fifteen years of Gaza being besieged by the IDF. Yes civilians died in it and that’s tragic, but Hamas did not create the conditions under which the operation occurred, Israel did. Hamas does not have the power and the international backing to end this conflict, Israel does. Hamas has not spent seven and a half decades ethnically cleansing Israelis - Israel has spent that time ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
Anything short of support for Hamas is support for genocide.
MTK@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’re only worth moral consideration if those in power want you to be.
Wars, racism, homophobia, etc. These are just the results of those who have the power to ignore those they deem not worthy, doing whatever they want.
It ranges from current wars, to past wars, to the Holocaust, to 9/11, to eating animals, to Epstein, etc.
Maybe one day we will realize that someones worth should not be assigned by others.
We are all equal or we are all dead.