I don’t know how the mineral ingredients of a fuel cell stack compare to a lithium battery, but assuming they’re the same, a fuel cell vehicle has significantly less of them. For example, the fuel cell stack in the Toyota Mirai weighs about 19kg and is complemented with a battery that weighs 45kg (1, 2). In comparison, the Tesla Model 3 carries a battery weighing 480kg. Therefore, a BEV has about 6.5x as much stuff of questionable origin (and questionable disposal requirements) as a FCEV.
AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
The FCEV is going to be fueled from fossil fuels for the foreseeable future
Today, about 95% of all hydrogen is produced from steam reforming of natural gas.
www.energy.gov/eere/…/hydrogen-fuel-basics#:~:tex….
EV battery packs however can be nearly fully recycled back into more batteries.
CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 4 days ago
As the transportation sector electrifies, how can you be so sure that the GHG-free portion of the grid’s electricity mix will stay the same or improve? Why wouldn’t the fossil fuels that currently power our vehicle fleet follow the demand and shift to powering the grid? BEVs only make a small portion of the cars on the road, but there’s evidence that this shift is already happening. So, while it might currently be the case that the hydrogen powering an FCEV was derived from natural gas, it’s also certainly possible that your BEV is effectively running on coal. I’m not trying to knock BEVs here. Rather, I’m making the point that the problem you’ve raised is one of energy policy, not FCEVs. Relying on BEVs to mitigate our current energy policy, instead of correcting the policy, is just going to create new problems.
As for recycling battery packs, yes, I’m aware that it’s a thing, but it’s not pretty. The best course is to minimize the amount of battery that needs to be dealt with in the first place.
AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca 4 days ago
Shift? Dude that article has been debunked already.
thebusinessjournal.com/blog-harris-ranch-sets-rec…
Funny thing is that EVs are still cleaner than ICE even when powered by a Coal grid
forbes.com/…/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-w…
CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 3 days ago
A month after the Business Journal article, a Harris Ranch spokesperson confirmed that Tesla did set up diesel generators to power Superchargers for a time. So, it’s a thing that happens. Regardless, the point is that the energy in the gasoline and diesel fuel that goes into most of the fleet will still have to come from somewhere and there are no policies to make sure it comes from GHG-free sources.
If it’s not a problem for BEVs to run on electricity derived from coal, then it shouldn’t be a problem for FCEVs to run on hydrogen derived from natural gas. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t really matter how the energy from coal or natural gas eventually gets consumed. It’s a separate issue that we simply shouldn’t be burning any of that stuff.