Is it worse than actual smoking, though?
Comment on Policy banning vape sales outside of pharmacies to go before Senate, health minister says
Ilandar@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Vaping becoming socially acceptable and widespread has been fucking annoying as an asthmatic, so I am please to see that we’re entering a period where the health risks are being better examined and governments are starting to regulate. Social policymaking is always difficult, but it’s a start and hopefully can be improved and refined in the future. A solution having potentially unintended consequences is not a reason to avoid attempting to solve the problem altogether. I also don’t buy this libertarian “any restriction of my freedom is bad” argument when the behaviour in question is anti-social and harmful.
Nath@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Sarsaparilla@aussie.zone 1 week ago
A study measuring the aerosols from two vape users and comparing it with secondhand cigarette smoke found vapes produced a much lower level of ultrafine particles, but a much higher level of nanoparticles. It is not clear what risk these pose. Another study found vape use increased fine particles in a room’s air.
From SMH: Is secondhand vaping a growing threat or ‘fake news’?
It would seem the science is still not in on just how dangerous it is, but further in the article it says:
The question, says Demaio, is whether we should wait for conclusive evidence before taking action.
“We don’t have any long-term studies on the safety of these products, or on the safety of secondhand exposure. It took us 20 years to realise it [tobacco] was causing damage in the next generation of kids who were living with others who smoked.
“My worry is we take another two or three decades to realise the same thing.”
Ilandar@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Not as far as I’m aware, but vapes can also contain different chemicals that may contribute towards different types of health conditions. More research is needed on the long-term effects I think (which can only come with time). One thing I have definitely noticed among people I know who vape and/or smoke is that the vaping is constant and done everywhere and anywhere, whereas smoking is far less common and will be something that people remove themselves from a group to do (outside and further away). Vapers are far less considerate of others and vape more because they believe it’s less harmful, which increases the level of harm. So in that sense, I think government policy is also important here to signal that vaping is not harmless so that we can start changing the culture around it like was done with smoking many decades ago.
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
The problem is this applies equally well to stuff like eating fast food or not doing cardio 3x a week.
I’m an ex smoker for context, I hate this fucking shit but we don’t offer any real support to prevent addiction and just punish people for it.
I’m 100% plain packaging and selling behind counter (for all drugs, all products really ought to have advertising bans and plain packaging but I’ll never win that one). I’m also in favour of making addicting stuff boring. But after that people are ultimately free to make bad choices (I write, sprawled with terrible posture, a glass of wine, and some chips) and leaving the TGA to authorise these will mean none get approved and a black market will be created anyway.
Ilandar@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Neither of those behaviours have any direct impact on my health. Even alcoholics don’t directly affect the health of those around them by drinking in public.
Vapers would still be free to make bad choices and hurt those around them under this new policy. No one is taking away vapes, just like no one took away cigarettes.
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 week ago
Oh but don’t they?
People who don’t do cardio might be more likely to have a heart attack while driving, or otherwise drive at a lower level of alertness (cardio improved cognitive performance and slows decline) hence increasing their chances of hitting someone.
Or perhaps they cost the state more in health (tbh probably like smokers they cost less but this is the common justification for the sin tax on smoking) which damages your ability to get your health issues attended too.
People drinking alcohol are more likely to engage in violence, and do actually pose a risk to people around them statistically.
Obvs this stuff is reaching, but so is most of the health stuff on vaping so far (most harm demonstrated is due to ‘popcorn lung’ which is basically a result of lack of regulation meaning a certain flavour got used despite this known side effect) and the point is we need to consider degrees.
We live in a society and there aren’t super clear boundaries on what we ought to be able to do. The current proposed law, which again I’m broadly in favour of, does massively fuck up by placing vapes under the TGA. That means they need to be regulated as medical devices which means unless you can show a vape has a medical reason to be on the market it wont be approved.
Since that will never happen (except, maybe as a cessation tool but the TGA will have high standards of evidence) this is still a ban on vaping, just the long way round. Note how CBD is legal and OTC except there are no approved CBD products for OTC.
Ilandar@aussie.zone 1 week ago
Well at least you acknowledge this. Note that I said “direct”; this was for a reason. All of the consequences you listed require extreme examples and a timeline of events, whereas even the most casual of smokers or vapers can immediately affect the health of those around them.