Comment on Israel Gaza war: ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Hamas leaders

• ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  “Their terror attack” lol. My man, if the term terror attack was around in the 1940s, Hitler would have used it to describe the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. And make no mistake- this is a ghetto uprising. If you don’t want people do make a violent bid for freedom, don’t spend decades torturing and murdering them in an open air concentration camp. Simple.

  Terrorist is buzzword that fascist states apply to people who stamd up, who return even a fraction of the violence they are made to suffer every day. Every slave revolt and anti-colonial uprising in history has been tarred with the same brush.

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  • BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If you don’t want people to make a violent bid for freedom, don’t spend decades torturing and murdering them in an open air concentration camp with no recourse. Simple.

    I’m with you here. The violence is of Israel’s own making, but no matter how “just” one believes their actions are, they are still against international humanitarian law. I apply the same standard to everyone, be it Hamas, Israel, Poland, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, China, United States, etc.

    If you are willing to spill civilian blood, you also should be willing to take responsibility for those actions.

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    • Beetlejuice001@lemmy.wtf ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      If you are willing to spill civilian blood, you also should be willing to take responsibility for those actions.

      I must’ve missed the part where the 30k civilians murdered killed anyone

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      • NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Your numbers are higher than even the hummus ones right now, unless you really believe that only 5k were soldiers

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    • robinnn@hexbear.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The term “civilian” has been actively stripped of all meaning when people willfully occupying native land and displacing the population as those natives are slaughtered are included.

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  • Shyfer@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    While I agree with you, it’s still a war crime to take civilians as hostages.

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  • NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Nah, it’s safe to apply the label terrorist to ANYONE who decides to hold children for ransom

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• NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I mean is there anything proving Hamas leaders intentionally planned any civilian deaths?

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  • BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    They are money holders, and it was a well financed and coordinated attack. And they are in direct control even know as they try to negotiate ceasefire and hostage release.

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    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      and it was a well financed and coordinated attack.

      True enough, but there's only so much you can do once the soldiers are actual fighting if you're not on the field (especially when you don't particularly care either way). That said, I haven't seen anything since this "war" started that would serve as evidence to implicate, say, Sinwar in an international court of law. If he says "our plans didn't involve attacking civilians our soldiers didn't it out of their own accord" nobody can prove him wrong. Now I do think that's actually what happened (from a strategic perspective Hamas has too much to lose and too little to gain by killing civilians during a military attack), but even if that's not the case there's simply too little evidence to prove it.

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      • BrikoX@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Arrest warrant is not a sentence. If he’s brought to the court, he will have a chance to prove the lack of evidence. But even by proxy, leaders are responsible for the actions of their subordinates. Same way we attribute authorization given by leaders sitting in their “war rooms” to launch drone attacks or giving “go” to tactical teams to them and not individual actors.

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  • Ghost33313@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Then who orchestrated the attacks on only civilians? Hamas hurting civilians is nothing new. Both sides have been assholes long before this started. Everyone in the region would benefit from both parties being prosecuted.

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    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Then who orchestrated the attacks on only civilians?

      They... didn't? That's exactly what I'm talking about. The attack had clear military objectives (taking hostages is morally grey but still not the kind of atrocity we're talking about). At least as far as I know everything you'll think of when you hear the words "Oct 7 Hamas atrocity" can be passed as, and probably is, spontaneous violence caused by the fact that Gazans hate Israelis' guts rather than any orders from the top brass.

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      • eleventy_7@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        You're right that it is possible that Hamas didn't intend for the scale of civilian casualties that were seen on Oct. 7th, but even if that's true then they are still responsible for not keeping their people from commiting said spontaneous violence. As the leaders of a militant faction, like a regular military they are responsible for training their soldiers (or equivalent) and keeping them in line during operations.

        I'm actually more on the Frantz fannon school of thought about the necessity of violence against oppressors to overthrow colonial regimes, so I'm more amenable to hamas' plight than most I think, but Oct. 7th is still pretty indefensible.

        Having said all that, to make clear, I'm not defending Israel or their retributive genocide. Fuck them. But I don't think we should go easy on Hamas' war crimes either, so I don't think the ICC is really 'both-sides'-ing in this case.

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• robinnn@hexbear.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Even ignoring that these people are mandatorily required to serve in the IOF, there are very few settler-colonial civilians (children, others without agency, and anyways these civilians are only here by the will of the settlers). It’s ridiculous to equate Palestinian civilians with Israelis not actively in the IOF when the latter chooses to occupy Palestinian land and displace the natives in the brutal practice that is settler-colonialism.

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