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Comment on Tesla must face fraud suit for claiming its cars could fully drive themselves

I don’t see anyone claiming they have “working full self driving”. That’s a strawman argument. Their system is really good and years ahead of competition but there’s still a shit ton to improve. That’s why it’s classified as level 2 and not level 3. It’s a vehicle capable of driving itself under supervision but it’s not a self driving vehicle.

I’ve seen videos with FSD creating numerous dangerous situations on a single trip

In the past few months? Because the current software version is completely different than what it used to be. They’ve moved entirely from human code to neural nets and it made a giant improvement in its performance.

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Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

I don’t see anyone claiming they have “working full self driving”

The whole thread is about Musk claiming in 2019 that Tesla has FSD working NOW, that could drive the car from a parking lot on the other side of the country (USA) and pick you up in a parking lot where you are. AND that it could drive more safely than a human being.
I am not interested in the slightest whether it 50 or 90% there now, the fact is the claim was made firast in 2016, that Tesla would have it ready NEXT YEAR, and in 2019 hwe claimed it was ready NOW! And it STILL not ready!!

So what is it about Musks claims being false you don’t understand.

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- Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  
  The whole thread is about Musk claiming in 2019 that Tesla has FSD working NOW
  
  From the article:
  
  (1) representations that Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability and, (2) representations that a Tesla car would be able to drive itself cross-country in the coming year.
  
  So not only are you clearly emotionally invested here but you’re also being dishonest about the claims that have been made. I don’t think there’s any reason to go further with this.
  
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  - Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Oh boy you are tiresome, I wrote the thread, not the post.
    
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racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
“Their system is really good and years ahead of competition but there’s still a shit ton to improve”

Is it years ahead of the competition? I thought the consensus was that Tesla is far behind, hence why Mercedes is the first brand to actually have some basic level 3 automomus driving actually to customers, and companies other than tesla are actually doing tests with robo taxis. Tesla is good at claiming it can do the above, other companies are the ones actually doing it.

And indeed, there’s a shit ton to improve, which directly contradicts statements Elon Musk made, and keeps making. As others already pointed out, calling it Full Self Driving while letting it do that is basically suicide is just the beginning. Elon Musk regularly repeating that it’s there, it works etc… only to leave customers waiting for nearly 8 years now with a system that is not what Elon described, etc…

Self driving is really hard, Tesla made some good progress on it, but Elon continuously lying about it should indeed get legal consequences. I’m hope this lawsuit teaches him to actually talk about things he actually knows are true, and not just what he wishes was true.

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- Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  
  I thought the consensus was that Tesla is far behind, hence why Mercedes is the first brand to actually have some basic level 3 automomus driving actually to customers
  
  Yeah that seems to be the consensus but I have no idea what it’s based on. When the Mercedes system is put against FSD it looks like this. The level 3 driving is available only on a handful of highways between LA, SF and LV and even then only in ideal weather and traffic conditions.
  
  If the competition really is ahead then where are all the videos of their vehicles doing what FSD does? There are countless accounts on YouTube demonstrating the capabilities of FSD driving both on highways and in cities but nothing about these other brands.
  
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  - Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Mercedes: Requirements to be used Legally.
    Tesla: Not Legal unverified results.
    
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  - Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    
    I have no idea what it’s based on.
    
    It’s obviously based on other makers being ahead.
    
    Mercedes, Waymo, GM, MobilEye, Nvidia are all ahead, making Tesla #6 at best.
    
    When the Mercedes system is put against FSD it looks like this.
    
    Are you misleading on purpose? Or are you really that dense?
    
    www.mbusa.com/en/owners/manuals/drive-pilot
    
    Mercedes Calls their version of fully autonomous driving: Drive Pilot but you show a comparison to a way more basic Driving Assistant, which is nowhere close?
    
    This comparison shows that Tesla FSD in reality is merely a drive assist.
    
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  - racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Why don’t you ask the experts that rather than a random lemming like me? And why don’t you ask Elon why he keeps claiming it’s capable of more than it actually is?
    
    I honestly don’t care enough about it to do research, but you seem to. And i’d just love for guys like Elon to stop lying about what they have.
    
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efstajas@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

I don’t see anyone claiming they have “working full self driving”

… They’re literally calling it “Full self driving”.

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- Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  …and I don’t see anyone claiming it to be “working” as in it being safe enough to not need supervision.
  
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  - efstajas@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Wait, so in your mind products need to have “working” in their name in order to be held to the standard of … working? I don’t understand what you’re trying to argue at all. They’re calling and selling this product as “full self driving”. It’s not full self driving. It doesn’t need to be called “working full self driving” in order for it to be misleading.
    
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    Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    No, the other user is claiming that they don’t have a “working” full self driving but is being vague about what they mean by “working”.
    
    Full Self Driving is just the name of the software. There’s also autopilot but that’s different. The end goal of it is to eventually be capable of level 5 self driving so that’s why it’s named like that even though it has been a work in progress all of it’s existence. Wouldn’t make much sense to call is “partial self driving under supervision” because Full Self Driving is a better marketing term. Misleading? Well yeah perhaps but that’s what marketing teams do. Nothing new there. Not a single Tesla owner is under the illusion that you can just enable the system and take a nap. Doesn’t mean people don’t do that but they know that they shouldn’t. The system tells you that every single time you enable it.
    
    Personally I don’t see a huge issue with that name. It’s level 2 meaning that it needs driver supervision and it’s by no means flawless but it does what the name implies: drives itself. It’s not just an advanced cruise control like for example the Mercedes Drive Pilot but it is actually capable of independently driving itself and especially with the V12 it’s actually getting quite good at it.
    
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