CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 6 months ago
What I want to know is why when I’m talking to my wife in the car about buying new shows do I get a YouTube ad that evening about new shows, when I never got that kind of ad before.
Are our phones listening to us while we talk in the car, and then ads are generated from that?
I’d really like to know the answer to that question.
It’s usually not a case of the phone listening but, more creepily, that your behavior before and after talking to your wife about new shoes signaled that you want to buy new shoes.
Ad algorithms are surprisingly perceptive about signals that aren’t obvious.
that your behavior before and after talking to your wife about new shoes signaled that you want to buy new shoes.
There was no previous or after behavior.
We were in a car, long road trip, I mentioned needing to buy new shows during the trip, and when I got home late that evening YouTube was serving me up ads for shoes on my PC. No searches was done before or after the trip (as I mentioned elsewhere, I just go to a store and buy multiple boxes of the same kind of sneakers/shoes on sale).
It doesn’t have to be your searches, it could have just been the fact that your phone recognized you were on a road trip and that people in your ad cohort tend to want to buy shoes while on road trips.
I’ve worked in algorithmic ad space before and I can say that I’ve never seen evidence of phones listening on conversations but I have seen plenty of evidence from years ago where all your other data is used to form a terrifyingly accurate profile.
We used to do dead reckoning and gps speed gait profiling and we would only need about a weeks worth of GPS data to know height, weight, sex, where you live, where you work, where your kids go to school etc.
We would take that data and cross reference that with data broker info to form a profile, put you in an ad cohort bin, and serve you up as a platform for ad matching services to match to ad campaigns, which get even further targeted.
Millions of dollars spent hyper targeting you but 99 times out of 100 the inaccurate campaign is paying more so they get the adspace but the one time the actual low paying hyper focused campaign gets through it’s always scary how accurate it is.
tl;dr: Ad companies don’t need to listen to your conversation to know what you want to buy, ads are usually inaccurate because the inaccurate campaign paid more
It doesn’t have to be your searches, it could have just been the fact that your phone recognized you were on a road trip and that people in your ad cohort tend to want to buy shoes while on road trips.
Are you f’ing kiddig me? You really going to go with that excuse? Somehow by driving from one city to another city on the freeway that tells Google that I want to buy shoes? Come on.
Sure is weird that that has never happened to me on any of the other times I also drove the same route over the years.
Occam’s Razor should be considered at this point.
I highly doubt phones are always listening.
But, they already are.
Some people like the option where they just say “Hey Google” (or whatever) and then the phone talks back to them, so they’re always listening so they can hear that initiation sequence.
Personally I like the ability to turn that feature off, so I have to explicitly enable the microphone to have Google listen to what I’m saying.
Isn’t the activation phrase on a separate piece of hardware that’s not networked?
NGL I don’t the the guy with the anti ai blurb in all his comments is very knowledgeable about tech lol
NGL I don’t the the guy with the anti ai blurb in all his comments is very knowledgeable about tech lol
You know, if you have to try to "Kill the Messenger* to win a point, then you’re not really winning anything, and you’re just disrespecting another human being.
I’ll refer you to the Vice article that has been linked elsewhere in this conversation.
It most likely is. And if it’s not your phone, then it’s your car (assuming it has been built in the last few years)
It most likely is
Instead of guessing, you people need to learn to use Wireshark and find out for yourself.
No, they don't just listen all the time with an open mic.
Wireshark may or may not help you here. The proposed mechanism is abusing the wake words, which are processed locally on the device. Each marketing wake word could be processed, set a flag and go back to sleep with no network activity. Periodically a bit array of flags would be sent to the server with any other regular traffic (checking for notifications, perhaps). The actual audio never gets sent. I’m not saying that Facebook actually does this, but it’s a reasonable explanation for the behaviour seen in the Vice article.
No, they don’t just listen all the time with an open mic and just send all audio to the cloud. Anyone in cybersecurity would definitely notice that and sound the alarm.
How would they though? The mic is already known to be always on, and what the servers/back-end are doing with the mic input data is not viewable/known by us. So how would they know?
If you're monitoring the traffic, and you start speaking, and you suddenly see pac6kers spewing out of a device every time you talk, that's a good indication. There's indirect methods to analyze it without necessarily being able to see the actual data.
Poking around the PCB with an oscilloscope to see electrical signals will probably be useful too.
It most likely is. And if it’s not your phone, then it’s your car (assuming it has been built in the last few years)
Yeah that’s really creepy. I would only want the phone to listen when I actually ask it a question, not 24/7.
I would only want the phone to listen when I actually ask it a question, not 24/7.
If the phone does not listen 24/7, then how does it know when you are asking a question? It should discard all information until the wake up word is called in theory. Only way it could work if you have to press a button to start listening to your question. This was the case in the past, however people wanted to ask questions while showering or something since they introduced this “improvement”.
If the phone does not listen 24/7, then how does it know when you are asking a question?
I pushed the microphone button on the keyboard editor when I want the microphone to listen to me.
I am skeptical about listening not only because it was not proven, but also because almost the exact same result is achievable via much, much simpler and omnipresent means.
I am skeptical about listening not only because it was not proven,
This old article from Vice seems to have proven it, back in 2018.
And their conclusion was completely wrong.
Because unless you’re a journalist, a lawyer, or have some kind of role with sensitive information, the access of your data is only really going to advertisers. If you’re like everyone else, living a really normal life, and talking to your friends about flying to Japan, then it’s really not that different to advertisers looking at your browsing history.
These days, a private conversation about pregnancy, abortion, voting, or your feelings about geopolitical stuff like Gaza or Ukraine could absolutely be used against you, depending on where you live.
Yeah, I didn’t like that part of the article either, but then again that was back in 2017/18 before the today’s political environment.
You’re definitely right.
I’m not aware of any research that’s proven that phone are listening on conversations and serve ads based on that, just a bunch of anecdotal evidence. there has been some research a few years ago that proved the opposite, though.
there has been some research a few years ago that proved the opposite, though.
Could you supply a link for that article? I would very much like to read it. Also, I would want it to be a recent article, to be believable for the current conversation we’re having.
just a bunch of anecdotal evidence
Well, we all are just black boxing this, as we do not have access to these Corporation servers and what data they collect.
But you have to admit thar in my case at least Occam’s Razor would definitely point you in a certain direction.
gizmodo.com/these-academics-spent-the-last-year-t…
this is the most recent one I know of.
you have to admit, that in my case at least, Occam’s Razor would definitely point you in a certain direction.
it points me in the direction of you either being in the demographic currently targeted by the ad provider, or you having been shown the ad before without noticing it, and only paying attention after talking about the topic, and experiencing frequency illusion afterwards.
gizmodo.com/these-academics-spent-the-last-year-t…
this is the most recent one I know of.
gizmodo.com/these-academics-spent-the-last-year-t…
this is the most recent one I know of.
Gizmodo? 2018? Yikes.
Interesting enough, in that same article is one from Vice, which backs up what I’ve been stating and assuming.
Hi.
I work with and for most of the major tech companies worldwide and yes, we are listening to your cell phone even when you turn off the settings.
I’m not going to provide any proof or further context. Just trust me bro.
Do a little research on Sony and “the garden”.
No. How about you summarize it for us.
Answer is no. Google Ads doesn’t work that way. If you perceive such a coincidence, it just happened by chance or you or your wife sent out other signals that buying new shoes is a topic for you.
If you perceive such a coincidence, it just happened by chance or you or your wife sent out other signals that buying new shoes is a topic for you.
None of that happened though. It was on a long car trip, no Internet web browsing done, and no previous searches done from home.
The only time shoes were relevant was a verbal discussion in the vehicle.
Still a high chance for a coincidence. And the human mind tends to see patterns to structure the world. Shoe advertisement is not particularly rare in the web.
Still a high chance for a coincidence.
How? Its an isolated environment where the conversation is being had.
ccunning@lemmy.world 6 months ago
What are the odds than anyone in the household searched for the shows? Targeting ads to all devices on the same IP or even devices that have previously been on the same network happens.
I was able to predict that my mom had been researching “bunion shoes” after I started seeing ads, seemingly randomly, for them not long after she came to my house to visit.
CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s just me and the wife, and we were both in the car together.
I meant to say shoes, not shows. The voice to text doesn’t always get me perfectly, and sometimes I miss the typos it creates.
~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~
Telodzrum@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s not even just that, humans a incredibly predictable and that predictability is able to be microtargeted based on trends and past activity of an individual.
CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I literally let years go by between buying shoes, no kidding. So I don’t think that what you described would cover my specific case.
~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~
Telodzrum@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You just described a pattern, though.
IronKrill@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I agree in an abstract, but shoes do not wear at the same rate each year, especially when you buy different shoes each time. My shoe purchases, for instance, vary by a number of years.