You can’t be serious.
Comment on Killer drones pioneered in Ukraine are the weapons of the future
eleitl@lemmy.ml 3 months agoOnboard AI guidance is not difficult.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 months ago
eleitl@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Tracking a moving object in realtime with video is a standard task for a machine learning engineer. You can do it on an embedded platform with ML hardware support. I don’t know what hardware newer Lancets use but they can already do it according from developer reports from Teegram channels like e.g Разработчик БПЛА.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Honestly, I was just objecting to the use of “AI”. We’ve had both fire and forget and loitering munitions for decades now, neither of which use ML. Will it happen? Sure. For now, ML/AI is too unreliable to be trusted in a deployed direct attack platform, and we dont have computing hardware powerful enough to run ML models that we can jam in a missile.
eleitl@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
The point of modern deep learning approaches is that they’re extremely easy on the developer skill. Decades ago realtime machine vision needed a machine vision expert, these days you throw the hardware at the problem at learning stage, and embedded devices to run the results are stupidly powerful (doesn’t even take a Jetson board), if you compare to what has been available even a decade ago.
barsoap@lemm.ee 3 months ago
For now, ML/AI is too unreliable to be trusted in a deployed direct attack platform
And probably can’t ever be trusted. That “hallucinations can’t ever be ruled out” result is for language models but should probably apply to vision, too. In any case researchers didn’t have much trouble making cars see things.
That doesn’t mean that ML can’t be used, though, you can have additional non-ML mission parameters such as the drone only acquiring targets over enemy territory. Or that the AI is merely the gunner, there’s still a human commander.
cynar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
The US already has them.
There are single shot drones, designed to be deployed into a building, or cave system. They then use cameras etc to navigate, while running face recognition. When they find their target, they fly just in front of it. The shaped C4 charge is designed to reduce their head to red mist, while not risking those close by.
AI + cheap drones will completely change warfare. Probably on the same level as the tank, or machine gun.
threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
The US already has them.
Do you have a source for this? These sound uncannily close to the Slaughterbots short film…
cynar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I’ll try and remember to dig it out later. It was a sales demo from a weapon’s company. I can’t remember exactly which one it was, but the implications scared the shit out of me.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 3 months ago
Imagine when they are long range and readily available. Any old despot could load on a rough GPS location and a face. Deniable foreign assassination becomes easy.
d00ery@lemmy.world 3 months ago
A combination of GPS, or even enertia based guidance to get them to the target area and then some simple vehicle object identification, I’d think those are possible.
turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
GPS is usually the first thing to be jammed in the battlefield.
cynar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
GPS is useful, but not required for operation. Inertial guidance, and ground tracking cameras can easily maintain a good position sense, while completely RF passive. This is also already normal on many toy drones.
You would also want to jam it over a large area. That jamming is akin to a “kick me” sign, in neon lights.
Diplomjodler@feddit.de 3 months ago
You can’t be very knowledgeable on the topic.
Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I am, in fact, fairly well versed in the topic. You’re 30+ years away from being able to fit hardware powerful enough to run a ML model into a missle, though I cant see a single reason you’d ever want to. Look into the declassified, 30 year old design paradigms for missiles or other self-guided munitions and it’ll start to give you an idea of why the idea of “AI” guidance is so laughably stupid. There’s so very many reasons we use FPGAs, none of which are compatible with AI. Just fuck off with your smug, baseless superiority.
turkishdelight@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
I will be very suprises if this isn’t already happening.
ours@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s one thing detecting a person with machine learning in a test and an actual soldier with camouflage in a very imperfect environment. Also good luck telling friend from foe from civilian.
This has all sorts of problems while making the whole system more complicated and prone to issues. Not the mention moral questions of autonomous weapons. I have no doubt it will happen but not yet, not here.
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 3 months ago
Why would the drone differentiate an armed person from a civilian? I mean, you’ll be asking to separate out children next, at that rate!
eleitl@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
I know it already does, at least in newer Lancets. Expect this in fpv type devices soon.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 3 months ago
Yes it is.
perestroika@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Both of you are right.
It’s difficult, but how difficult depends on the task you set. If the task is “maintain manually initiated target lock on a clearly defined object on an empty field, despite the communications link breaking for 10 seconds” -> it is “give a team of coders half a year” difficult.
If it’s “identify whether an object is military, consider if it’s worth attacking, and attack a camouflaged target in a dense forest”, then it’s not currently worth trying.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 3 months ago
That was a good guess but unfortunately it is just difficult even in the scenario you proposed
eleitl@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Realtime person detection and following it with a drone? Difficult for me, certainly, but there are enough people out there who have done it.