Okay, but can you understand how that logic isn’t very consistent? Bad Blood itself is itself explicitly transphobic (a male killer dressing as a woman specfically to stalk women in the bathroom), it’s inherently biased bigoted propaganda. So discussion of the text would be allowed in literature section. Just not if it were transphobic?
You are trying to have it both ways. It’s easy enough to say you won’t allow transphobic content, but not to understand what that is nor listen trans folk pointing it out.
I mean frankly, you are gonna have the community regardless what I or any other trans person say, which is your right. Just please acknowledge that this isnt how an ally would act. It’s actively cognitive dissonance to have a nontransphobic discussion of Bad Blood or any of Rowlings work.
blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 8 months ago
No, I meant that it wouldn’t be put to discussion if it were transphobic. It would need to be decided just like for any other book. I just don’t want to pre-empitively outrule the book because I don’t know it AND because the situation hasn’t arised yet.
But yeah, we can assume that it would happen. Its a fair question. Probably I or the mods would have to do some reading and then decide. But that holds for any controverse book.
Now, the question is, if in doubt, would I rather ban the book discussion or not, I would be on the side of allowing it, because banning books from discussion is a very radical step and then see if any transphobic comments pop up around it.
That’s true, it was never up for discussion; I mean, it was some work to put it up. But I’m interested in your opinions around it. Just because it will not be a safe place for queer folks (I have neither the resources nor the skills), it can still be a generally welcoming place to them (hopefully).
inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I wanna share with you something a therapist said to me a few years ago, a trans black man. (his race shouldn’t matter, but when I have talked about this story before I am told its important context). Are you familiar with mammy dolls? Wiki has pictures at the bottom and google will bring up a ton of stuff. You can go to basically any thrift store and probably find some.
Anyways, he told me that when he would go to an acuiqtances house some of them would have these dolls, usually little salt’n’pepper shakers. And how seeing those items would radically change how he viewed that person. He said it was common for his host to realize his reaction to them, and talk about how it was a family heirloom and that they aren’t racist. But, if an individual person is fine with a little racial sterotype out on their dinner table, Dmitri told me it didn’t really matter what they said next. Because he knew they were willing to look the other way when it comes to racism, and that if it ever came to it, that person probabbly couldn’t be counted on to help if he were the subject of some sort of racial abuse. Very much the same way people defend the confederate flag, it’s easy enough to say you aren’t racist but if you can’t even look at your own actions, how could you possibly speak to others?
I am glad you are interested in not having a transphobic space, but I need you to understand that having a harry potter is inherently looking the other way on transphobia. It tells the world that it’s not a deal breaker and you can work around it because you have good memories of the piece in past. It’s easy to say you don’t agree with Rowlings views but if you can’t even stop from celebrating her work, then how much can any one really expect of you to be an ally? The simplest ask of “please stop promoting bigots” is apparently too much to ask.
You aren’t morally required to be a trans ally I suppose, but it’s important to me that you understand it’s an oxymoron to have a harry potter community that is welcome for trans people. You can absolutely find black people with confederate flags and you can find the same for trans people liking HP, but they are absolutely the minority and the vast majority of those group find those sorts of things threatening. Seeing how easy it is for groups of people to ignore that in favor of a nostalgia, reminds us how close to the edge of society we are.
It’s not your fault that harry potter communities make me feel unsafe. But it is a common trigger for TONS of trans people about anxiety, dread and fear for the future. I’m sure you have never been in a trans support group, but please understand that HP is brought up often because its something that cause stress in the overwhelming majority of trans folk. I personally have been harassed by people wearing HP shirts, even if you and others are willing to look the other way on it, you must understand that other TERFs go to HP because of the transphobia.
So there you go. Thank you for listening to my opinion, you are of course always well within your rights to do or read whatever you like. I just ask that you please stop promoting, financially support and publicly celebrating bigots. I would say the same thing to fans of The Turner Diaries and of Finders-Keepers.
blueberry@diagonlemmy.social 8 months ago
Look, first of all I’m not trans, I don’t know how its like, and you have my sympathy. The inzident with the H.P. fans harassing you sounds horrible and I’m sorry it happened to you.
Independent from this, I don’t think the world of H.P. itself is transphobic, if it was written by a different author there would still be things to critize but not more than many other childrens books. Also, I think that the fandom can free itself from Rowling in the sense that it becomes an independent thing from the author. For example the Lord of the Rings Series by Amazon Prime did some central things different than Tolkien. I think that’s how cultural development happens in contrast to just boycotting it. On the other hand, while Rowling still earns money from it and spends it for bad causes, there will always be a moral dilemma. But I’m willing to take the consequences of that moral dilemma in this case, because I think the H.P. fandom could be really good for the Fediverse and grow it, and a big Fediverse will be good for the world.
Additionally I have to add that, imo, throwing fashists and neo-nazis like David Duke into one bucket with Rowling is problematic, if not borderline totalitarian (and also just tasteless), because she simply isn’t. She is very conservative, but not a fascist. Fascists see certain groups of people as less human or not even humans at all, Rowling always said her arguments have nothing to do with the humans themselves, which is a crucial thing.
inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Thank you for the reply and for contuing to talk with me about this.
I understand why you think I am flying off the handle and comparing two things that aren’t the same. But there are a couple points I want you to keep in mind,
A) Rowling herself has actively promoted self described faccists on multiple occasions. Matt Walsh in the US who repedatly calls for, and his followers commit acts of violence at hospitals.
And Posie Parker in the UK. Who has a large nazis following her show up at her protests. And rowling herself was critical of the counter protesters at faccistic events.
Posie has actively called for her supports to carry guns in to womens bathrooms to look for trans folk, clearly calling for violence.
B) TERF transphobia is deeply rooted in the history faccism, the first books the nazis book burned were at a queer college studying trans topics.
-Jospeh Grobels who gave a speech at the burning.
C) According to Nazi’s, trans people are a jewish plot
Rowling is an active part of a violent fascist movement both from a historical sense, from her current actions and in the books she writes. Harry Potter has many antisemtnic tropes in the goblins, overtly racist names like the black wizard Shacklebolt and transphobia by repeatedly describing female villains to have “man hands”.
There is ample evidence to put JK Rowling and David Duke in the same fascist basket.