I mean, there’s a difference between not gatekeeping when talking about cloudflare and completely waving Cloudflare’s banner on your front lawn.
- Cloudflare has full access to your traffic, and privacy is a very strong motivator for a good chunk of self-hosters.
- You might also be interested in Cloudflare’s unending string of bad actor captcha redirects that Cloudflare inexplicably won’t resolve, for all their 800lb gorilla strength in warding off DOS volumetric attacks.
- Another thing you would think Cloudflare has resolved: captcha hell.
So yeah, I wouldn’t have phrased it the way original comment was phrased, but holy cow, bro… Cloudflare is far from perfect and the people that will have existential problems with Cloudflare are very likely to be self-hosters.
jpaskaruk@growers.social
Jason2357@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
Sorry to have made you upset. I consider Cloudflare to be the “gatekeeper” here.
I have seen all the walkthroughs and it looks like the worst of both worlds -false sense of security and more complexity and weird non-transferrable knowledge than first glance. I suggest they use a VPN to connect to anything you can’t secure easily, as there are lots of options, and far smaller attack surface than a Cloudflare “protected” (hint: its not protected from anything but the lazyest automated attacks) proxy.
Note: I understand moderate sized businesses using Cloudflare because DDOS attacks for ransom are a thing and a days outage can cost a lot of money. But its a protection racket and I don’t blame victims.
foggy@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I think you missed my point. You are mistaking your preferred architecture with moral superiority.
Cloudflare is not “gatekeeping” someone from self-hosting. It is an optional tool. A person choosing to use it because they are new, budget-conscious, or not ready to expose services directly is not sad, fake self-hosting, or somehow philosophically impure.
You can absolutely argue that Cloudflare has tradeoffs. That is fair. It adds dependency, abstraction, and vendor-specific knowledge. It is not magic security dust. No disagreement there.
But telling a beginner “this is sad” because they are using a mainstream protective layer while learning is exactly the kind of gatekeeping that makes self-hosting communities hostile to newcomers.
Also, “just use a VPN” is not a universal answer. VPNs are great for private admin access. They are not always the right solution when someone wants family members to access media or services without managing VPN clients, device support, troubleshooting, and onboarding. Different threat models, different usability needs.
The helpful response would have been: “Cloudflare can be useful, but understand what it does and does not protect you from. Don’t expose admin panels. Use MFA, strong auth, least privilege, good backups, updates, reverse proxy rules, and keep anything sensitive behind a VPN.”
That is useful advice.
“This is sad” is just self-hosting purity signaling.
I have tagged you as “selfhosting gatekeeper” for future reference.