Comment on Poignant post on the state of things
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
I went to college, acquired two diplomas, my SO went to college and acquired one as well. My brother has two as well if I recall correctly, and his wife has one as well.
Together, we are four college graduates with upwards of six diplomas between us.
The four of us also had to pool our finances to afford one home.
Quad income, one house.
It’s not a small house but it’s not exactly in a high demand city (we’re pretty far out in a rural area, surrounded by farmland). I also wouldn’t describe the house as large. If my SO and I, or my brother and his wife were to buy this place it might be “large” but with four of us here, it’s fairly modest. We have no significant land, less than a quarter of an acre, and there’s nothing special about the house that makes it cost more (in fact, there were several things that should have lowered the cost). Yet here we are, scraping by with multiple incomes barely able to save at all because the monthly cost of the mortgage is so high… And we need to save, because all of those savings need to exist for when the water heater and furnace and air-conditioner inevitably fail… They’re not new, this is not a new home. I’m still finding aluminum wires that I have to rip out and replace, because if the place burns down and my insurance finds a scrap of aluminum wire, they’ll deny me any coverage for the damage.
My SO and I have no children. That fact is never changing.
rockstarmode@lemmy.world 11 months ago
6 diplomas and no kids and you’re having trouble affording a quarter acre in the boondocks? I’m sorry, I’m going to need more information, that just doesn’t pencil unless you got a bunch of useless degrees, or are refusing to explore the job market.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
I’m in Canada. Getting a diploma from a college isn’t a degree. Most are 2-3 year certificate courses. Until recently, colleges in Canada couldn’t even issue degrees. If you wanted a degree from college courses, usually you would earn a diploma and then have further studies at a university before you obtained a degree.
Between the four of us, there are two nurses, one graphic designer, and one IT/systems/network administrator. Our combined household income is above $150,000 CAD per year (probably closer to or more than $200k, but I haven’t crunched the numbers), and our home, which is less than 3000 sq ft, and cost in excess of $700,000 CAD. Monthly we pay over $4500 per month for the mortgage alone, and we have plenty of bills which are additional to that to keep the house running, as any home owner will know.
We live in a rural community in the middle of farmland. It’s a small town type thing, population in this town is under 10k. In town we have a grocery store (just one), I believe there are three pharmacies for some reason, a few medical services (clinic, dentist, eye doctor), and a handful of fast food places including an A&W, subway, pizza hut, and some local places too, mostly pizza places. To get to the next town/city over, you must drive at least 15-20 minutes to reach the city limits of another Township or city, which often doesn’t get you to anywhere you would want to go, and you’re probably going to need to drive at least 10-15 more minutes to get anywhere you would want to go.
Several of us have not insignificant debts, mostly credit cards and vehicle loans, though most of us have paid off our educational loans at this point.
These are all factual statements. As for my opinion… I don’t owe you an explanation. You can not believe me if you wish. I could not possibly care less about what you think of my situation. I don’t say any of this to provide some sort of evidence or proof that the information I initially gave is valid or true; I wrote all this down to provide context because I felt context was warranted. We’re all millennials, born between 1980 and 1990, and we’ve all worked our entire lives to try to get out from under the debt that was pushed on us from post secondary education and from the economy being in the crapper for so long. Nobody got a free ride through college, we all accumulated some educational debts. We’re all hard working people and I don’t need to justify that we’re doing our best. The fact is, this house that we own today, would have cost half as much 15 years ago, possibly less. The problem is, at that time, we were all so saddled with debt we couldn’t have hoped to afford this house even at less than half the cost, at that time. Now that we have enough to actually start the process of having a mortgage and buying a house, the market has gone to such shit that the only way for us to afford it with our stagnant wages is to pool our funds. With a simple meal at a modest restaurant costing over $50 CAD per person, it’s not really a wonder why we’re all struggling. We all require vehicles because there’s next to nothing in our city worth going to, and the local grocery is frequently 50% + more costly than a discount grocery in the next town over (a 20 minute drive at least). So for less than $5 in fuel, we can save literally hundreds per trip on groceries. We couldn’t do that without vehicles. Which isn’t to mention work; we’re all specialised in our fields and as you should be able to imagine, we generally need to go where that work is to earn the wage we deserve. Again, requiring vehicles in most cases.
We’re solidly middle class, and we’re okay being middle class. None of us inherited significant money from family, and only because of a death in our immediate family were we even able to afford the down payment to buy a home. We’re proud of what we have accomplished, and there’s nothing you or anyone else can say that will take that away from us. The fact is, my entire generation has been screwed from the start. There have been more economic crisis and “once in a lifetime” collapses and such that we’ve been held back so significantly that it has become a near impossibility for many people I knew from highschool to achieve the same as we have despite being similarly educated and in a similar social standing.
I do, however, take offense at the implication that we simply suck. That we’ve somehow squandered the opportunities that we have had.
And with that, I bid you good day sir.
rockstarmode@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Hey, I appreciate the context and explanation. I’m sorry if I came across as offensive, that wasn’t my intent. It appears that I made a couple of assumptions about your situation which weren’t true, and you cleared them up for me.
I’m from the same generation as you, and come from generally the same circumstances (no inheritance, DINK, etc), but I live in the US so I’m not very familiar with Canada’s job market, or wages. I also made a bad assumption about diplomas being bachelor or master’s degrees.
700k house with $4500 monthly mortgage sounds strange as well, but maybe you have a shorter term loan than I expect. I know housing prices in Canada are crazy, but 700k in the middle of nowhere is bonkers.
$200k household income puts 4 adults at about the average salary in Canada. That’s a little distressing given your degreed qualifications, I’d think that IT work and nursing would bump those numbers quite a bit.
I know you didn’t ask for advice, so I’m not going to attempt to give it. Thanks for helping me to understand your situation, sorry again if I sounded like a jerk.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
I get it, it’s easy to just react and not think about the tone you may be portraying on the internet.
Remember we’re dealing in Canadian dollars; but the housing market here is nuts. A couple of new builds went up about a block from me and they’re asking for 1.5M each, with about 2/3rds as much house for the price… We have 6-7 bedrooms and those places have 4, IIRC. They’re new, but I don’t think “new” is worth twice the asking price.
My problem is that I’m not terribly far from a Toronto, it’s about an hour drive in light traffic by the highway a bit more when you consider it can take 20 minutes to get to the highway from here. Still 1.5 hours or so from Toronto, and people who live in Toronto who have money and are looking for a small town to live in… My area is pretty appealing to those folks, especially when they can sell their modest tomorrow house for several million dollars (again, Canadian). So if someone is looking to retire to a small community, they can likely sell their home, buy one of those 1.5M houses up the street, and still have money left to retire with…
Toronto’s housing issues have become a problem for the entire region. People are commuting farther and farther to get to Toronto for work because the costs in the city are so outrageous.
My mortgage is a standard 25 year term, but the bank is handling property tax so that drives it up a bit. It’s closer to $4000/mo before the extra stuff. Here, we also need mortgage insurance, home insurance and content insurance. Mortgage insurance is required so the bank can get paid if we are incapable of paying them and the asset disappears (like if we were all at home and the house was destroyed), house insurance is for us, if the house is destroyed and we survive, the home insurance will cover the cost of replacing the house (rebuilding it). Content insurance covers everything we own that is in the house, like our TVs, computers, beds, clothing, etc.
Some of the insurance is mandatory, most of voluntary but a really good idea.
We also have mandatory car insurance here. So between the mortgage and all the insurance we have for home and vehicles, plus property taxes and other things, we’re probably spending above $5k/mo on simple living expenses. Then bills for electricity, heating, internet, cellphones… Our total household expenses are not cheap and they’re not getting any cheaper. Many are poised to increase over time. With the fairly stagnant salaries we bring in, it’s not easy.
I work in IT, I hold the IT certificates, and I’m actually earning the most in the home. Something like 1/3rd of our income is me. Probably more like 40% maybe more. I don’t have the exact figures for what everyone is making, but I’m well above a one-quarter share. Less than half, but above one quarter. My brother, the graphic designer, has had the worst luck with employment and earnings, but he still contributes where he can. It’s just been tough for him, but I won’t get into his situation since that’s not my story to tell.
I recently had a bout of unemployment, and while we have social assistance here for unemployment, it was less than 40% of my normal earnings (there’s a cap that I hit). I’m back at work now and things should ease up financially.
As for advice. One of the certificates I hold is in business. Part of my business studies included personal financial management. I’m certain that any advice you could give, I’ve already heard and told myself over and over again. Knowing what to do and doing it, are two different things entirely. I’ve never had investment money, though I know what to do if I ever do. Most of my earnings go towards keeping things running and doing minor upgrades where I can, when I can. Right now I’m in a bit of a recovery phase, where all my free money will be going to paying down any debts that have arisen from my time unemployed. Once that’s taken care of, I’m hoping to develop a small slush fund for when/if I ever end up in a similar situation and getting my long term debts paid off. This will, unfortunately, take years to accomplish. Most of my money needs to go towards keeping the lights on.
Simply put, losing the house, or falling behind on bills is simply not something that should ever happen. So my focus is clear. Primarily keeping the house in working order and our bills paid. After that pay off any and all existing debts, then finally build funds so I can relax. Even if something were to happen, like when I ended up unemployed, I can survive without further stress and worry… Allowing me to focus on getting a job instead of stressing over what needs to be paid, and where our next meal will come from.
I’m far from the only one struggling. I know you are too. I’m sure many aspects of my story are echoed in your life. The fact is that this cannot continue like this. We need better wages. Prices for goods and services cannot continue to just rise uncontrollably. The middle class is disappearing, we’re not unique in our position and bluntly, it makes me mad that everyone in the middle class seems to be struggling, but nobody cares enough to actually do anything about it. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class gets squeezed between them. Either we gain enough to escape into the upper class, or we’re doomed to fall into the poor house. Most of us are headed down. Some may go up. I probably won’t live long enough to see which way my family goes, and I have no children to suffer through it either way. As long as I can maintain what we have for the next 20-30 years, we should be able to come out on the other side, into retirement and the story will eventually end with us. I’m okay with this. Hopefully whomever gets whatever is left when I die, escapes the trappings of middle class and can move up in the world.
Good luck everybody.