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Comment on Gamecube is the most underrated console while it was in circulation.

The GameCube was a flop mostly because of image and marketing, not because it wasn’t technically good.

I have one and I love it, but I only got it long, long after release.

What 12-year-old boy asking for a Christmas present is going to choose the cutesy purple brick that “only has kid games” over a sleek black PS2 that is seen as being adult, with action and fighting games? Not many, and so the GameCube flopped.

I think Nintendo were starting to see at that time that consoles weren’t just for boys. They were for girls too, and for the whole family, and the GameCube was a step towards that. But it didn’t go far enough. They ended up stopping short and falling smack in the middle where it didn’t appeal to the established ‘male gamer’ demographic, and still didn’t grab families either.

Then the Wii came along and went HARD on the family-friendly aspect, and just blasted off the shelves. Nintendo learned a lesson, but the GameCube was the price they had to pay for it.

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MudMan@kbin.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Okay, here's my obligatory reminder that it's less of a flop than people, particularly in anglo territories, give it credit for. It sold just shy of the original Xbox and it outsold well liked stuff like the Dreamcast or the Vita about 2 to 1.

A few consoles at that time were very regional. The N64 was a rare sight where I'm from, I have seen an original Xbox in the wild exactly once, it was being used as a DVD player and the owner had no games for it. The Gamecube picked up a lot of steam over here once the price went down to 100 bucks and it got a reputation for having some of the best excluisves of that generation later in its lifespan.

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- Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Here’s MY obligatory reminder that GameCube had little compartments on the bottom that you could hide yer drugs in!
  
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  - MudMan@kbin.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    And a handle. From that perspective it was a nice tiny lunchbox with a cool console attached to it.
    
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orclev@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You touched on a few good points, but I think ultimately reached the wrong conclusion.

What 12-year-old boy asking for a Christmas present is going to choose the cutesy purple brick that “only has kid games” over a sleek black PS2 that is seen as being adult, with action and fighting games?

This was literally Segas entire marketing strategy. Nintendo early on decided to lean heavily into the family friendly marketing for their consoles starting with the NES (or famicom, literally family computer) for various reasons but most prominently because of the videogame crash of the 70s.

Sega saw an opportunity to position themselves as an edgier option that would appeal more to the tween and teen demographic and so leaned very heavily into that in their advertising in the 80s and particularly the 90s. This tactic was rather successful and so Nintendo developed a reputation as the console for children. This image was further cemented by certain decisions by Nintendo around game content, most prominently by the rather shortsighted decision to force the Mortal Kombat series of games to recolor characters blood to green instead of the red it was on arcade and sega systems (this could be disabled using a hidden cheat code somewhat rendering the entire exercise moot).

When Sony and Microsoft came along they didn’t really need to do anything special besides release whatever games they wanted, the damage to Nintendo’s rep was already done. Nintendo then made things even worse for themselves by releasing a console in bright candy colors most closely associated with marketing towards young children that literally looked like a small childs lunchbox.

Then the Wii came along and went HARD on the family-friendly aspect, and just blasted off the shelves.

Nintendo realized that they wouldn’t be able to shake the children’s console rep they had developed easily and so decided to lean heavily into messaging that their consoles were also for adults. Much of the marketing for the Wii (in fact the majority of it) depicted the console being played by adults and the elderly. It was actually somewhat rare to see advertising for the Wii showing young children using the console, a stark contrast from Nintendo’s previous marketing.

This was also reflected in the design aesthetic of the console and its packaging featuring a modern minimalist flat white color scheme with minimal light blue highlights. Compared with previous Nintendo consoles the Wii was downright drab looking. It’s packaging looked more like a product from Ikea than a games console.

Nintendo further lucked out with the Wii in that it had a novel control system utterly unlike anything else in the market at the time and so had a massive novelty factor going for it. Additionally helping with this was that they positioned the console at the extreme low end of the market releasing it at a price point well below half the cost of their nearest competitor.

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- MudMan@kbin.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  They didn't "luck out", they were reproducing the strategy that had already worked in the DS. Remember "Brain Training"? To this day I know people who claim to loathe videogames who owned a DS and were cool with it. Same core design: accessible, unorthodox input system as a trojan horse for adults, here are all the games it turns out you also enjoy playing.
  
  It's the same with the Switch and the detachable controller, dockable console gimmick. If anything, the Wii U is the outlier in them not designing it well enough to pay off that ongoing strategy. One could argue that the 3DS did as well, but that glassless 3D screen is amazing, particularly once they figured out eye tracking, you're all wrong about that one.
  
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  - orclev@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Remember “Brain Training”?
    
    No actually, I’m not sure what that is. The only novel feature I was aware of with the DS was the dual screens. The clamshell form factor had already been proven out with the SP, and stylus based touch screens were relatively common at the time having been proven out with the PalmPilot and its various clones. Unfortunately for Nintendo the original DS was just a bit too big and bulky for a portable, something they fixed with the DS Lite and subsequently the DSi and 3DS.
    
    That said, the bigger factor I think at the time was the price point. The Wii at launch retailed for $250 and very quickly fell to $200 and late in its life could even be found for as low as $100. In contrast the PlayStation 3 launched at a minimum of $500 to as much as $600 for the highest capacity model. The XBox 360 which had been on the market for about a year at that point was a little better off with its minimal configuration being available at a modest $300, with its most expensive offering coming in at $480.
    
    Making things worse for Sony but better for Nintendo the PS3 had rampant supply shortages and scalping leading to it commanding even higher prices at launch. Around the holidays the XBox 360 had similar issues although far less extreme. In contrast Nintendo managed to maintain a steady supply of the Wii and while there would occasionally be shortages leading to bare shelves they never lasted long which helped cut down on instances of scalping.
    
    The pricing in conjunction with the novelty of the Wii controls is what led it to such a huge success. The funky motion controls were an interesting gimmick and were enough in many people’s minds to justify spending $200 even if ultimately the Wii was just a glorified Wii Sports machine that ended up gathering dust after a few months.
    
    There’s a reason both Sony and Microsoft rushed out their own motion control systems and then just as quickly abandoned them and why Nintendo never really went back to them after the Wii. It was very much a fad. The very limited motion controls of the joycons in the switch are the last remnants of that design, but even Nintendo seems to have realized it’s a fairly niche control system that the Wii went a little too hard on.
    
    Nintendo has always been willing to gamble a little and try unorthodox things with their game systems, be it the frankly bizarre controller of the N64, or the unusual lenticular lens of the 3DS, and the less said about the VirtualBoy the better. Sometimes those gambles paid off, sometimes not so much. Ultimately though I don’t think Nintendo’s decision to include motion controls in the Wii was some kind of grand strategy to appeal to a wider audience, rather I think it was just part of Nintendo’s policy of experimenting and willingness to try unusual things. So yes, in that regard Nintendo very much lucked out with the release of the Wii.
    
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    MudMan@kbin.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Touchscreens were absolutely not commonplace in mass market devices. There were absolutely a thing that existed, but they were associated to productivity devices and corporate things trying to look modern and fancy. I'd argue with no Nintendo DS you get no iPhone.
    
    Nintendo's pitch for the DS was that it wasn't a Gameboy. The Advance was the Gameboy. This was the adult system for adults that used a touchscreen and you could hold it sideways and read it like a book. And they had Brain Age/Brain Training, based on some quack's later disproved theories but that sounded and felt healthy and meant for older people who liked to do sudoku. Also, you want to do sudoku? You can do it here! There's a pen and everything.
    
    That "blue ocean" strategy on the DS and the absolutely insane success of it was the template for the Wii two years later. And it worked both times. They weren't even shy about it, they are on the record a bunch explaining how they wanted to sell boring, grey DSs to people and then get them to buy games and become gamers instead. That ended up being what made Apple the biggest company in the universe, and it's blow by blow the strategy Nintendo came up with. They are just too budget minded, so they attached that to a cheap console instead of an expensive mobile phone.
    
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aard@kyu.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
And for the family friendly aspect nothing after the wii beat it.

The multiplayer games there are just better than something like the switch offers, and the controllers are a good size and weight for emulating whatever they are representing in games. Stuff like tennis with the tiny light switch controllers just feels wrong.

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- orclev@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The market forces of today are also vastly different from when the GameCube or even the Wii launched. When the GameCube launched videogames were still largely considered something for children, game consoles were the primary platform for gaming, and the PC gaming market although it had been around for a while was still very much a hobbyist demographic. For context the GameCube was released in 2001 while Steam wouldn’t even be available till 2003 and wouldn’t have any 3rd party games until 2005. Today in contrast I think it’s very much accepted that people of all ages play videogames and the gaming market is pretty evenly divided up between PC and console gaming. Nintendo is quite happy with the niche they’ve carved out for themselves with their systems being largely a platform for their own extensive first party catalog plus any other 3rd party games people care to play on them. We live in an age where cross platform releases are the norm now, so platform is largely a question of preference outside of exclusive releases.
  
  Family friendly at the time meant that your kids could play it on the living room TV and there wouldn’t be anything your average uptight conservative suburban mom would start writing angry letters about. Recalling my point about Nintendo’s family friendly rep having been established during the era of the NES and SNES it’s important to note that the ESRB didn’t exist for the entirety of the life of the NES and only showed up late into the life of the SNES. During that timeframe Nintendo very much wanted parents and grandparents to be comfortable purchasing any NES or SNES game for their children no matter their age, and so were very strict about what kinds of content they would or wouldn’t allow. The fact they let Mortal Kombat onto the SNES at all was something of a miracle even if they did insist on the most pointless censorship ever.
  
  What you’re referring to as family friendly I would say is more accurately described as social gaming or couch co-op. The physical aspect of multiplayer gaming on the Wii certainly added something unique to local multiplayer on the console, an experience wholly unlike a group of players sitting on a couch holding more traditional controllers.
  
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  - aard@kyu.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    What you’re referring to as family friendly I would say is more accurately described as social gaming or couch co-op. The physical aspect of multiplayer gaming on the Wii certainly added something unique to local multiplayer on the console, an experience wholly unlike a group of players sitting on a couch holding more traditional controllers.
    
    Pretty much everybody copied it afterwards - Microsoft has Kinect, Sony has some support to use their camera for that. Switch controls can be detached for that kind of play - but there never was the high amount of well done movement games available on any other platform afterwards, and never again the good haptics of the wii remote.
    
    We have the wii and on of our switches hooked up to the TV - in that mode we pretty much exclusively use the wii. I recently downloaded pretty much all remaining sports and dance games to get some more variety. For the switch the cool stuff is the mario cart with physical carts, and the Labo.
    
    Being able to use the wii controllers and the balance board on the switch would’ve been a great thing.
    
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