Comment on [deleted]
DessertStorms@kbin.social 10 months agoI can't speak for others, but my downvote is because this post reeks of "free speech" enthusiasm. People looking to create a space they don't need to moderate and where people don't need to "walk on eggshells" is just the dog whistle way to say bigots who don't want to get called out or banned for their bigotry.
And you can tell, because if someone wants to create a genuinely safe space for everyone, moderation is an absolute necessity.
solrize@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The presence of those people on reddit never bothered me much. They stayed in their own niches and I stayed in mine. I’m fine with the idea of individual communities being safe spaces for particular groups though it’s likely impossible for anymore anyplace to be safe for everyone.
A general purpose cooking community will be unsafe for vegans. A vegan community will be unsafe for BBQ chefs. A programming community that I want to be in might be unsafe for Java programmers (never date a Java programmer–they will treat you like an object). The best you can do is make sure that participation is voluntary and that edgier topics don’t overspill too much.
DessertStorms@kbin.social 10 months ago
Lmfao, way to deliberately miss the point and make some completely irrelevant examples since neither vegans nor BBQ chefs, nor Java programmers are marginalised groups of people who need to be protected (and even if they were, you'd still need motherfucking moderation to keep them that way). But good to know where your head is at lol 🙄
And you're right - you can't make a safe space for everyone, because to make a safe space for most you have to not only exclude fascists, but make sure they don't have a safe space to exist in.
Your "blind eye" bullshit just enables them, being outside of your perception doesn't mean they don't exist and aren't causing harm to other, actually marginalised people.
But hey, since the fascists don't bother you, then I guess we're ok.. 🙄🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
solrize@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Less turning a blind eye than accepting that I don’t control what other people choose to talk about. Those offensive conversations you want to block from Lemmy are happening in real life all the time, around dinner tables in certain parts of the country, redneck bars, construction sites, even churches, etc. They happen on the internet too, and that is life. The world is fundamentally not a safe place.
I’m all for having some safe enclaves in the fediverse (safety enforce), but I’ve generally been comfortable in unsafe spaces like Usenet programming groups: they are usually civilized through being unattractive to crazies, but unmoderated, so there are occasional disruptions. If a place is toxic (all crazy all the time) I don’t go there but others might choose to.
You were the one that said you wanted the fediverse to be safe for everyone, with “everyone” italicized. That’s not possible. Lemmy.world isn’t even safe for kids (it’s federated with lemmynsfw.com which is porn). And sooner or later, if there is universal safety enforcement, people will decide that toxicity is anything that they don’t agree with. First they came for the bigots, which is ok because nobody likes bigots. Then they’ll come for the Java programmers and fine, I won’t miss Java either. Then they’ll come for the vegans and hey wait, I’m not vegan myself but some of my friends are. Then they’ll come for me. You see how it goes.
So mostly I prefer to not have hall monitors everywhere trying to keep everything safe. Have them in a few places where they are wanted. The big culprit that gave us the toxic internet is the amplification of outrage by social media algorithms, i.e. bumping up whatever discussions have the most disagreement, most reactions, etc. Usenet didn’t have that and it is better off without it. Lemmy has it but IMHO it should get rid of it. Just have chronological feeds, no sort by comments or by upvotes/downvotes. I have my default sort type set to “new” (chronological) and it’s a nicer and calmer surfing experience than having the latest viral whatever shoved at me nonstop.
See also “facebook demetricator” for a brilliant add-on along those lines.