Comment on The first minds to be controlled by generative AI will live inside video games

• match@pawb.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What can’t be a kind of mind to you?

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• huginn@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Unless you want to call your predictive text on your keyboard a mind you really can’t call an LLM a mind. It is nothing more than a linear progression from that. Mathematically proven to not show any form of emergent behavior.

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  • General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It is obvious that you do not know what either “mathematical proof” or “emergence” mean. Unfortunately, you are misrepresenting the facts.

    I don’t mean to criticize your religious (or philosophical) convictions. There is a reason people mostly try to keep faith and science separate.

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    • huginn@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Here’s a white paper explicitly proving:

      No emergent properties (illusory due to bad measures)

      Predictable linear progress with model size

      arxiv.org/abs/2304.15004

      The field changes fast, I understand it is hard to keep up

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      • General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        As I said, you do not understand what these 2 terms mean. As such, you are incapable of understanding that paper.

        Perhaps your native language is Italian, so here are links to the .it Wikipedia.

        it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comportamento_emergente

        it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimostrazione_matematica

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  • kogasa@programming.dev ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No such thing has been “mathematically proven.” The emergent behavior of ML models is their notable characteristic. The whole point is that their ability to do anything is emergent behavior.

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    • huginn@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Here’s a white paper explicitly proving:

      1. No emergent properties (illusory due to bad measures)
      2. Predictable linear progress with model size

      arxiv.org/abs/2304.15004

      Do try and keep up.

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      • kogasa@programming.dev ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Sure, if you define “emergent abilities” just so. It’s obvious from context that this is not what I described.

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  • MxM111@kbin.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I do not think that it is “linear” progression. ANN by definition is nonlinear. Neither I think anything is “mathematically proven”. If I am wrong, please provide a link.

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    • huginn@feddit.it ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Sure thing: here’s a white paper explicitly proving:

      1. No emergent properties (illusory due to bad measures)
      2. Predictable linear progress with model size

      arxiv.org/abs/2304.15004

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      • MxM111@kbin.social ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Thank you. This paper though does not state that there are no emergent abilities. It only states that one can introduce a metric with respect to which the emergent ability behaves smoothly and not threshold-like. While interesting, it only suggests that things like intelligence are smooth functions, but so what? Some other metrics show exponential or threshold dependence and whether the metric is right depends only how one will use it. And there is no law that emerging properties have to be threshold like. Quite the opposite - nearly all examples in physics that I know, the emergence appears gradually.

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• Corgana@startrek.website ⁨6⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Sorry you’re getting downvoted, you’re correct. It’s not implausible to assume that generative AI systems may have some kind of umwelt, but it is highly implausible to expect that it would be anything resembling that of a human (or animal). I think people are getting hung up on it because they’re assuming a lack of understanding language implies a lack of any concious experience. Humans do lots of things without understanding how they might be understood by others.

  To be clear, I don’t think these systems have experience, but it’s impossible to rule out until an actual robust theory of mind comes around.

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