Comment on If we're going to have an effective strategy against FB/Meta, we should clear up some misconceptions around defederation

dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• ThiefUserPermissions@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As an instance owner I have defederated preemptively from threads. I take the same logic as ‘dont do a deal with the devil’ or ‘dont negotiate with terrorists’. Sure maybe you get lucky and win some but the odds are stacked against you. Instead I am more interested in cultivating slowly what lemmy is as a platform without some companies influence. We are doing ok right now. Ae are slowly growing right now. The only reason they are interested in us is because they see the potential. We dont need them to foster that potential. Lets focus on doing this on our own. For better or worse, at least we can say we did it our way for what we ultimately believed in if we stand on our own and do it.

  And as an aside. I dont need a seconder to agree with me or tell me this is the right decision. I have done enough and seen enough to make this call on my own and stand by that decision. Its not relevant to me if anyone agrees with it.

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  • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Well, I agree with it anyway. So there.

    This is the way.

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• FaceDeer@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  and then cut off the greater Fediverse as a whole once their user base is established and much larger than ours.

  I have bad news for you, then. Or good news, or whatever. Threads already has 160 million users. I thought one of the talking points was that Threads was going to overwhelm the Fediverse when it connected?

  We don’t want them interacting with us at all.

  Don't speak for everyone. The whole point of the Fediverse is that everyone can have different opinions and nobody can unilaterally cut someone else out of it.

  If you don't want to interact with Threads, there are plenty of instances that have already defederated and lots of clients allow users to block by instance. You don't have to. But if someone else does want to engage with Threads users, you shouldn't try to stop that.

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  • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Threads already has 160 million users.

    That’s weird, these numbers aren’t taken into account on that graph: businessinsider.com/threads-meta-app-decrease-dai…

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    • mob@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      But any way you want to compare Threads activity/uses to Lemmy’s… It’s pretty obvious that Threads is already way bigger which was the main point I’d imagine.

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• rglullis@communick.news ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Their goal is to lure (probably former reddit or twitter) users to Threads

  Their goal is to take users from Twitter, and by doing that they are opening the opportunity to get users from Twitter to the Fediverse.

  There has to be at least one major news org who is looking at this and thinking "well, if Threads does bring a few hundred million people to the Fediverse, we’ll be able to drop Twitter and integrate our CMS with the Fediverse like Wordpress.

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• LastoftheDinosaurs@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And that’s part of the point, as well: There are tons of people on here putting forth the effort to post content on a deliberately non-corporate platform, to make lemmy.world a great place – as well as other instances.

    Meta is a for profit company. Everything they do is to turn a dollar. Rest assured, they would not have any intention of attempting to integrate with the Fediverse if they did not have some plan to make money off of it. And I for one do not consent to Meta and/or their advertisers profiting off of the work and content I have posted here.

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    • otter@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      We should 100% promote more stuff here, that doesn’t take away from the points above

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  • otter@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I agree to an extent, but that won’t stay the case if other good people making high quality content choose the other platform because it’s not closed off.

    I think that’s a legitimate risk to worry about

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    • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The content creators here are mostly former reddit content creators, we’re sick of corporations abusing our good will.

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• otter@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The ToS part sounds good, and I was looking into something like that a while back.

  As for the rest, could you share which parts of the argument is unfounded, or why it’s “entirely BS”?

  Not to be hostile, but this is the kind of comment I’m talking about above.

  • I absolutely despise Meta too, I’m trying to figure out the best way to limit their effects on the Fediverse and keep growing the good thing we have. As much as I want to do the big symbolic action, it feels performative and ineffective at best.
  • It’s not really former Reddit users they’re after but rather Twitter. Lemmy is still separated and it doesn’t matter for us either way (for now)

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  • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The notion that anyone should interact with Meta at all is enough. You lost me right after that part. Anything after that is just meaningless apologetic noise for the sake of appearing nuanced. That’s bullshit.

    No means no. No Meta. The extremism, the “big symbolic action,” it’s all warranted. Block them. Block them forever.

    P.s. You’re allowed to use cuss words on the internet. Tell your friends!

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    • otter@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      and

      The notion that anyone should interact with Meta at all is enough. You lost me right after that part.

      Maybe keep reading the rest because there IS nuance to this. I hate Facebook and think that sticking our heads in the sand will help them win. If those other platforms just blocked and ignored the incoming threat, they’d have died even faster.

      P.s. You’re allowed to use cuss words on the internet. Tell your friends!

      I didn’t write out ‘bullshit’ because I’m on mobile now and it was a fewer letters

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      • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        No, there isn’t. This is the clearest case of black vs. white you’re going to experience all week. Blocking Meta is not “sticking our heads in the sand.” There is literally no benefit for us allowing them to integrate with any of our explicitly non-corporate platforms. But there is a huge (and in their eyes profitable) benefit for them. If there weren’t, they wouldn’t try. So answer me this, what do we actually stand to gain?

        Bots? Misinformation? Having our content redisplayed on Threads for profit? Ads? Corporate accounts spamming us incessantly? Corporate moderators, corporate instances, corporate communities where all the messaging is controlled? Having our content used to train AI’s? This is all the crap we escaped when moving here, rather than using the existing social media network products. What, is Mark Zuckerberg going to cut instance operators a check to help with their overhead expenses for all the content he’ll steal? Don’t make me laugh. You can see posts that were made on Threads? If anyone actually wanted that, they’d just use Threads to begin with.

        The argument is that Meta integration will allow the Fediverse to become “mainstream.” Well, Lemmy and Mastadon are already doing just fine without Meta. They will continue to do just as fine without them in the future, barring any catastrophic reddit style administrative fuckups on any major instance(s). Meanwhile, there is enormous risk in allowing Meta to have their way with us, our platform, and our content. None of the other hot air matters one bit no matter how it’s phrased. It will be much healthier as a whole for Fediverse platforms to grow organically without corporate (and frankly, evil) influence. And if that means they remain smaller communities now or even forever that’s okay.

        The openness of the “open web” stops precisely before bad actors are allowed to co-opt it for evil purposes. Companies like Meta always have as their end goal a closed walled garden for their users remain trapped in to have profit extracted from them. Well, let them have it – on their own, without us. We need to set the precedent that those of us who give enough of a shit to use Fediverse platforms in the first place cannot be bought or sold. They’ll talk about “openness” now but I guarantee you the design is for that to be a one way street.

        No means no.

        Never means never.

        No Meta means no Meta.

        Nothing else needs to be said on the subject.

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    • Carighan@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No means no. Never means never. No Meta. The extremism, the “big symbolic action,” it’s all warranted. Block them. Block them forever.

      Interesting. Did you know that just recently a major social media site took such an extreme stance against third party apps? Blocked them forever?

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      • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        A FOR PROFIT company blocked their users from using helpful tools is not the same and you know it.

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• LastoftheDinosaurs@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    even if no kne, for all practical purposes, on the end is posting, they’ll have 1000x the content.

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• throws_lemy@lemmy.nz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’ve said in other reply in other post, but many people believes Meta doesn’t harm to fediverse or they can’t analyze our posts, comments, upvotes/downvotes when accounts from Threads interact with us. 🤷

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  • FaceDeer@kbin.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They can analyze our posts, comments, and upvotes/downvotes without there being any Threads integration at all. This is an open protocol and we're posting in public.

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    • Carighan@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah that’s the part people miss. “They’ll harvest the data!” … oh noes? They’ll read the public data. How shocking. I am truly without words.

      (Also, people should not post things publically if they don’t expect that information to be, well, public)

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