I have a family member with an artificial heart and that is a worry of mine, that one day such implants will need you to agree to ToS in order to ensure continued operation.
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Letto@reddthat.com 6 months agoWhat’s so messed up to me is that the implants I design, inactive pieces of metal, are required to be operable for the life of our longest living patient PLUS 20 YEARS. Yet somehow as soon as electronics are involved they can get away with this. How long until pacemakers or insulin pumps need a license to continue functioning?
This is why I have an issue with privatized medicine.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 6 months ago
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
They likely already signed the ToS while going through the surgery paperwork.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah, until the ToS changes and the manufacturer bricks the heart because they missed a payment. Or said something online they don’t agree with, or joined a group they don’t like or any one of 100 other things.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
If your internal hardware is connected to an active internet connection, that’s kinda on you…
WHYAREWEALLCAPS@kbin.social 6 months ago
Healthcare and profit motive should never, ever be allowed to mingle. That's how you're going to wind up with a pacemaker that requires a monthly subscription or even a prescription - meaning if you don't see an authorized doctor, you can't keep your pacemaker running. If someone like United Healthcare could do this, they absolutely would.
bruhduh@lemmy.world 6 months ago
USA and insulin issue be like
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I deal with electrical stuff and it is a different animal. We know our stuff can’t last for decades. All we can do is document it so freaken well that the person who deals with it 20 years later has a shot at it. And unlike mechanical we can’t just tell people to have a bunch of spare on hand because that stuff will rot on the shelf.
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
If something needs updates and repairs then they should be designed as such. Interchangeable parts, standard interfaces, safe shutdown and removal procedures. Planned upgrade cycles. Etc.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You mean the way industrial controls have been done since the 19th century? This stuff doesn’t just happen, it takes work to make it like this.
fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Oh for sure! Engineering and standard creation is no easy feat for sure.
Wilzax@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Would it not make more sense for a certain standard deviation away from the mean failure time to still meet the lifespan of the longest living patient? Why a flat 20 years?
Like if your product lasts an average of 40 years with a 2 year standard deviation on failure, if your longest living patient uses it for 34 years then you’ve effectively guaranteed it will last for life for over 99.7% of users, even if very few will ever last for 54 years.
circuscritic@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I agree with your sentiment, and maybe this is a minor quibble, but I don’t see how complex electronic implants can be designed to function on the same timelines as “inactive pieces of metal”.
I do think that your bashing of privatized medicine is on the right track though. There needs to be some sort of regulatory framework, and possibly public funding, to maintain warranty and replacement stockpiles for implants that are too dangerous, or complex to remove, or unique in the medical niche they fill.
However, I’m just spitballing out of my ass and depth here, so it’s a distinct possibility that everything I just said is nonviable, or otherwise idiotic.
deranger@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Considering the already existing issues with inactive implants, maybe electronics shouldn’t be allowed in implants until they can demonstrate reliability.
SCB@lemmy.world 6 months ago
if someone is willing to pay $150k to see blurry grey dots I don’t see how it’s anyone’s business but there’s to ban that.
This is a pretty wild take you’re making here. You’re essentially telling anyone who has received a derp-brain implant for Parkinson’s to go kick rocks.
ringwraithfish@startrek.website 6 months ago
Just a thought, but with deep brain implants aren’t the electronics separate from the electrodes that actually go in the brain? That would make them a little more accessible without needing to do brain surgery every time.
Maybe that’s the middle ground for this situation at this moment in time: make the sensors/electrodes/static components needed for the health issue follow the same life+20 years and separate the processing pieces into a container that could still be surgically stored under the skin, but more easily accessed for maintenance, repair, replacement.
Theoretically, this could allow 3rd parties to come in and leverage existing installations by leaving the lifetime components in place and replacing the processing unit.
This could be the beginning of human device engineering standards similar to what IEEE does for computers and technology.
circuscritic@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I don’t disagree with holding those implants to high standards and reliability, but think of it this way:
My iPod is great, and has worked great for over a decade and it’s still going strong. However, I don’t think it’ll be around long enough to get passed down to my grandkids, but my wrench set probably will.
That’s my point. You can’t hold complex electronics to the same lifespan as a wrench, or replacement hip, no matter how well built they are.
webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
I think if you look around hospitals and science labs you will find there is some old electrical equipment that is still used because of how reliable it is.
When we want we can make lighbulbs that last a century
Space probe Voyager 1 (1977) is still communicating with earth from beyond the solar system, Space tech is a good general example of advanced technology that is designed to keep functioning, EDIT: After 46 years it had a computer glitch just today. It was designed to last only 5 years.
Other examples include bakelite Telephones from the 30s and Radios from even earlier still being fully operational.
Incorporating electrical equipment in implant and prosthesis should be just fine, but it should come ready out of the box with no need for updates whatsoever and the software that is prevalent open source so you don’t need to rely on a for profit company to maintain your health post surgery.
deranger@lemmy.world 6 months ago
What you describe is exactly why I don’t think electronics should be in implants. “Dumb” implants already have issues; adding electronics will only increase the issues.