Comment on €45,000 for a heat pump installation in Germany -- really?
Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 months agoI worked in the industry and real-estate.
These houses were never designed to be insulated or airtight, and (controversial take) IMHO shouldn't be insulated. I lived in a larger old house, and we'd heat a limited amount of rooms. The rest of the house was largely unheated and not properly insulated, allowing moisture to come and go. You simply dress accordingly. That's why people were always wearing multiple layers and three piece wool suits back in the day.
Eg. some old houses use lime mortar instead of cement. Lime mortar is more porous than cement, so it absorbs and wicks moisture. If you insulate that improperly, you're asking for problems, because moisture will build up behind the insulation or get absorbed into it.
Same thing for the roof of an old property. They were designed to circulate air. Water gets under the tiles, the wooden structure get damp, but it's not a big problem, because the air and moisture can evaporate and escape. People will poorly insulate their roof, then end up with disastrous moisture/rot issues, resulting in very expensive structural damage.
TLDR: If you insulate these properties improperly, the chance of rot or moisture issues is not negligble, and arguably you should ask yourself if it's even a good idea to insulate at all, rather than simply adapting your lifestyle and heating a limited amount of rooms.
TBi@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I agree with you. But there are breathable insulation types for these older houses. So they can be used. These are more expensive so should have higher tax breaks when applied to houses that need them.
Also I agree with the wearing extra clothing part. One extra jumper never hurt anyone.
Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 months ago
You are basically correct.
But allow me to rant, for which I apologise. Feel free to ignore, it's not that interesting.
The main main thing is (properly installed) moisture barriers, if necessary increasing ventilation, getting rid of any moisture, choosing the right insulation for the right job, etc.
Eg. rockwool is very absorbant and is even used in hydroponics, but if you pop it in an attic, use a decent moisture barrier, but ventilate it well, it's not a disaster if it gets a bit moist sometimes. Meanwhile, in an (almost always) damp basement, using PUR/PIR foam is likely to cause issues even if you use the best and most professionally installed moisture barrier. Better off using XPS. Meanwhile, when it comes to wall insulation in older houses, spraying foam into the intrawall cavity(inner wall, space, outerwall), can also cause issues.
The problem is that people will hire a company with a load of good reviews. They're friendly, they're affordable, the house is nice and warm and well insulated. Everything's covered up, so even if you were an expert, it's not as if you can check if they didn't half arse their job or if they aren't well intentioned morons who installed a moisture barrier the wrong way around so it only allows moisture in rather than letting it out.. But years later, when the damage starts becoming apparent, when people start falling ill from mould, or the concrete has become so weak so you have a pothole in your living room, the company likely doesn't exist anymore. And it's not as if you can hire a company with 50 years experience, because some of these kinds of insulation are quite new, and not everyone has experience working with older houses. Eg. Lime mortar started being being fased out at the beginning of the 20th century, so it's no surprise someone who's 'only' 40 wouldn't know it has different properties than portland cement.
TBi@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Good read and good points. Thanks for sharing/ranting!