Comment on Sony Steals Customers' Purchased Content - Piracy is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED!
Aceticon@lemmy.world 9 months agoSony entered in a contractual relationship with their customers and by Law the responsability ends there.
If you pay somebody to build you a garden shed and after 5 months of nothing happenning you complain and the builder can just say “sorry, the fly-by-night wood supliers whe paid for the wood just took of with our money, so you’re not going to get a shed and we’ll keep your money” and that’s alright?!
Imagine what would it do to Trade and Business in general if any supplier could legally screw a customer over because they themselves chose to to engage a fishy entity as their own supplier who screwed them, so they just passed on that loss legally to all their costumers.
No, the way things work is that each contractual relationship is isolated from all others, so Sony got full freedom to chose what kind of contract they signed with WB and what contract they “signed” with their retail customers (note that retail sales are implied Contracts and there are legally mandatory implied clauses in any contracts with retail customers, covering for example legally mandated guarantees periods) - likely profiting a lot by chosing the short-term commitment with WB rather than one that tied WB for, say, 20 years - and any mismatch of obligations that might arise from that is entirelly the responsability of Sony.
Sony got to keep the profits from their own choices of licensing contracts and now it’s up to them to make up for the losses derived from the consequences that choice, on other contracts were they themselves were acting as the supplier.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You should go read the licensing agreement. For all the companies, not just Sony because like I said before they all have done this. WB would sue Sony into the ground for breech of contract if they didn’t remove those shows. They’re doing what they are legally obligated to do. I’m not advocating for letting sony off the hook here. I’m saying this will continue to happen every time a license holder decides to cut out the middleman and make their own streaming service, and unless you hold those license holders accountable it will keep happening because it is legal.
Aceticon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Ultimatelly it depends on the local laws of each country.
In plenty of countries, in Agreements with Retail Customers, there are by Law various things which if present in the Agreement are considered invalid hence null and void. Also there are mandatory “clarity” and “upfront” criteria for certain kinds of Agreements terms.
So not only would Sony have to have in the User Agreement a clause or clauses covering the possibility that purchased viewing rights might be unilaterally withdrawn at any time by Sony, it would have to be in a form considered legally valid in a Legal Jurisdiction (i.e. such clause has to be valid and it has to obbey local regulations on clarity and proeminence and in an User Agreement which is actually valid (EULAs are not valid in most of the World because they are only presented post-sale).
Of course in the “Fuck You Plebes” United States, pretty much everything goes - unless proven otherwise after somebody spent millions in a court case - so an obscure clause in an EULA de facto suffices in pretty much all but the State were Sony America has its HQ.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 9 months ago
There is. That’s what I’m telling you. The agreement between the customer and Sony stipulates that the license can be revoked by the license holder at any time and in that case their purchases will not be reimbursed. That language is there specifically to protect them.
But either way you’re failing to take the main point into account which is that WB is not facing backlash for this, but Sony is. Both of them should face this backlash together.
“SONY grants you a limited, non-exclusive, personal, non-transferable license to use the SOFTWARE solely in connection with your compatible device (including, but not limited to, SONY’s products which the SOFTWARE is embedded in or bundled with) (“DEVICE”) solely in accordance with this EULA and the usage instructions as may be made available to you by SONY or the THIRD-PARTY SUPPLIERS. SONY and the THIRD-PARTY SUPPLIERS expressly reserve all rights, title and interest (including, but not limited to, all intellectual property rights) in and to the SOFTWARE that this EULA does not specifically grant to you.”
The license is revoked and is not transferable. Believe me when I say that none of the companies that have had this issue previously have reimbursed their customers in any countries that I can find due to riders like this.
This is an article from the last time this happened with Sony.
pcmag.com/…/studio-canal-movies-purchased-on-play….
Aceticon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sony chose to sign a contract with WB where it did not lock-in WB to certain responsabilities for a large time period - say 20 years - and instead chose a shorter time period (which both Business 101 and Asset Pricing Theory indicate it would be cheaper) and per what you say, covered its liability on the client side with clausules in the user licence agreement that essentially meant they could take away any content their customer purchased.
Even putting aside the legality of those clauses and of the EULA itself (if* it was presented to the client after the client paid, it’s legally deemed is void and null per the legislation in most of the World because it’s considered an attempt at changing the terms of a contract after it has been closed), I don’t see which WB is to blame for Sony having chosen a contract length in their agreement with WB that did not guarantee that Sony’s own clients would not be removed access to the digital media they had been led to believe they bought.
It seems to me that WB had a contractual arrangement with Sony (NOT with Sony’s client’s) with which Sony agreeded (and, having lots of expensive lawyers, it can hardly be claimed that Sony did not fully understood the implications of that contract) and they fullfilled their end of the contract, whilsy Sony on the other hand had a contractual relation with retail customers (which are not expected to be anywhere as good in understanding the ins and outs of that contract as Sony’s Lawyers) and which led many if not most of the retail clients to believe they had purchased something which was not in fact sold and if the EULA was only presented to said retail clients after they paid, it wasn’t even backed by a valid contract.
It seems to me that it was Sony that deceived their clients and (if having done so purposefully, it might amount to Fraud, something a Court Of Law would have to rule on), possibly using clauses which are invalid when used with retail clients or not making it sufficiently clear to said retail clients that the nature of the transaction was not a sale but a rental for an indetermined period (both of these depending very much on the legislation of country that retail client is based) and possibly using means that are not even a valid contract in most jurisdiction (i.e. an EULA which is presented post-payment).
In summary, the WB-Sony contract was between two sets of legal experts of big companies, hence both knew perfectly well what they were getting themselves into, whilst the Sony-Retail_Customer contract was between one set of legal experts and individuals most of which with no legal expertise at all and no access to cheap enough legal expertise to analyse all such contract, and which further, had clauses going against several consumer protection laws in several countrues and possibly (if they did it by that order, which I don’t really know) using an EULA presented to the customer after the sale, something which is null and void in contract terms in most of the World because it’s an unilateral attempt at forcing a change in contract terms after the implied contract of the sale has been closed.
How exactly does it make sense to conclude that its WB - the guys that entered into a clear contract with a legally well advised counterparty - who are to blame, rather than Sony who seem to at the very least misportrayed the nature of the sale they were making to retail costumers (who are not legal experts) possibly using means which aren’t even valid under contract law or due to customer protections?
I mean, I can see how you can claim that Sony’s actions were within their contractual terms with the Retail Customers (especially in the Fuck-You-Pleb US with its nearly non-existent consumer protections) so maybe it is all legal, but blaming WB who had a contractual relationship with Sony, who most definitelly have the lawyers to make sure that contract was exactly as they wanted to is ridiculous - Sony absolutelly had the power to pay more and get a contract with WB which, say, would guaranteed that media sold to consumers by Sony would remain available forever and only new sales would stop at the end of a certain period if WB did not renew the contract, they just chose not to pay more and rely on the expectation that they could screw their own retail customers who would be de facto unable to be compensated because of the cost of pursuing a legal case against Sony to get that compensated.