Comment on YSK that if your turn signal is blinking unusually fast (like 3 or more times a second), it generally means you have a bulb out.

• dmention7@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Honestly the best solution, as with most traffic annoyances, is just to quietly curse at them as you go about your day and let the police deal with enforcing the laws.

  When trying to teach someone a lesson, you might get the occasional person who was absent-mindedly being annoying, but most people are just going to come away from the interaction thinking YOU are the asshole. Not to mention the person who is being an asshole on purpose looking for confrontation…

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  • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think you summed it up pretty well.

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    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That is literally defensive driving.

      One of the really annoying things we inherited from reddit are the crowd of idiots who think the entire world can be summed up in a driver’s ed manual. Sometimes that manifests as “Driving 5 miles below the speed limit is the safest way to drive” and sometimes it manifests as… a jackass who is flooring it and swerving around traffic while flashing them with their signals because… they are maintaining the flow of traffic in the middle lane of a three lane highway?

      The reality is that it doesn’t matter what the law is (unless a cop is visible). The other person getting a ticket is a weak consolation when your car is totaled and you are potentially crushed by all the god damned monster trucks on the road.

      Defensive driving is about protecting yourself and, by association, the other drivers on the road. If the flow of traffic is that everyone is going 90 on a 60? You should at least be going 80 if you at all feel safe doing so because the alternative is increasingly aggressive drivers around you and an increasing likelihood of getting rear ended by someone who decides they want to pass on the right without looking ahead.

      And same here. I’ve more or less learned to ignore turn signals when I am at an intersection. People aren’t turning right until they slow down and ACTUALLY start turning right. Doesn’t matter if their blinker is on because it might have been on for the past ten miles or they realize at the last second it is not the turn they want.

      And that also applies to highway. I genuinely forget what the driver’s ed manual said, but let’s say that you are supposed to try to stay in the rightmost lane unless you are actively passing and the idea is that the left lane is for passing the people passing in the middle lane (that sounds wrong to me but, again, no idea). Fuck the law. Because people will randomly slow down 30 miles at a time when they start trying to read the signs to figure out what exit they are in. And “the rules of the road” are generally that the right lane is for getting on and off the highway, the middle lane is for traffic moving “at speed”, and the left lane is for passing… or driving 20 below the speed of the middle lane because you are the best driver ever but forgot what you were doing.

      At the end of the day: it is about minimizing collisions (and, increasingly, lunatics with guns taking pot shots at you for existing). And a jackass who is swerving around and trying to shame people by flashing their blinkers is doing the opposite of that.

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      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        +1 on the “I’ve more or less learned to ignore turn signals”… That was about my second driving lesson. I tried to turn right onto the main street. Someone indicated to turn and I thought I’m now supposed to go. And my driving instructor would always let you do mistakes and then wait for the last moment to brake very abruptly so you really knew you fucked up. In that circumstance, it wasn’t clear if the other driver was turning into the street I came from, or if they wanted to get to the gas station 30m ahead. Since I got my driver’s license, I always wait if other people slow down and really do the thing they signal.

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    • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The big assumption you’ve made is that everything I’ve described is brought out of rage.

      Only flashing the indicator could perhaps be rageful, and even then it’s more of an innocuous vent than anything else.

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      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Sure. Maybe I was a bit dramatic when I typed the reply. I know how annoying some other drivers are and how they make it worse for everyone. I wouldn’t even be mad at you if lost your cool. And I’m not against using indicators or flashing at people. That’s kind of why we have them in the first place. Only thing I’d have a problem with is brake-checking people or intentinally getting too close. Flashing or honking to signal them to get out of the way is alright in my eyes.

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  • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The best option would be for ongoing training for driving.

    Police don’t enforce the laws. Police are quite happy to punish people for speeding, because it’s an easy charge to convict - it’s much harder to convict someone with the crime of sitting in the middle lane. So they don’t bother.

    In my experience in the UK, most drivers actually respond to an interaction like I’ve described. When I flashed the indicator, then moved over to the inside lane, many drivers followed and moved into the inside lane. When I’ve looped around them, I’ve never been able to complete that many loops, because the other driver has realised what I’m doing and moved into the inside lane.

    Communication =/= confrontation. When driving, we are very limited in our communication - but that doesn’t mean there is no way to communicate.

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    • dmention7@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The best option would be for ongoing training for driving. Agreed 100% there!

      The problem (and probably why you’re getting downvoted) is that physically using your 2-ton vehicle travelling at freeway speeds to coerce someone into doing something is not really communicating. It’s not a method prescribed by any kind of authority or training, and is actively discouraged by most! Sure it may get the result YOU want in the moment, but communication requires understanding.

      Personally, if someone were to overtake me and then slow down intentionally, I’d take that as them being an inattentive driver at best, and a passive-aggressive jerk at worst.

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      • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        It’s definitely passive aggressive, but in my experience it wakes up drivers sat in the middle lane.

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• TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d agree that it’s kind of asshole-ish, but not full blown asshole. However, it’s perfectly legitimate to do, meanwhile sitting in the middle lane is explicitly illegal in most cases. I did find that it was better to slow down with the brakes, if only lightly to show the lights, as just taking your foot off the throttle was more likely to confuse. Also, I was sure to make it two separate lane change maneuvers with clear space in front of them, not just sweeping across two lanes across someone’s nose.

  Also, slowing down so that they pass you inevitably hurts you, as you end up accelerating more than necessary and reducing your fuel economy. Tbh, I don’t do it that often, precisely for that reason.

  Frankly, I wish beginner driving instructors would teach what I learned in advanced driver training:

  If you’re not overtaking something within 10 seconds, you should move to the inside lane.

  I ended up working to 7 seconds, as I found 10 seconds was sometimes hard to judge at distance, and by the time I hummed over it I was well within the bounds of staying out. Meanwhile, if you ever drive in the Netherlands you’ll find people cutting your nose off all over the place - they pull in right away.

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  • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    it’s perfectly legitimate to do

    Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany. It’s likely considered a form of coercion and two wrongs don’t make a right. And it’s dangerous.

    Same thing to get super close to other cars on the left lane, flash your lights and have your indicators signalling to the left constantly. It’s kind of a dick move. And bad accidents have happened because of this. But it happens every day on the streets.

    I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time. And there are soo many bad drivers out there. It’ll take you two minutes and the next person pulls to the left lane without having a look into the mirrors. And I don’t think it does anything to lecture those middle-lane hoggers. In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.

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    • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany.

      Maybe by a strict reading of the rules, but it would certainly be hard to prove that one loop around someone would be illegal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to pull in and slow down after travelling at speeds, even if you’ve just overtaken someone.

      And it’s dangerous.

      I challenge you to explain how this is more dangerous than slowly overtaking someone at nearly the same speed.

      Driving is inherently dangerous. Overtaking someone is dangerous. It’s all about the relative significance of the risk - what I’m proposing is not a significant risk in any way, especially when the maneuvers are executed properly and with care, per driver training. Specifically, you pull ahead well in front of them, move over in two moves, then don’t slow down until you’re in the inside lane (and slow down gently with inidication via the brake lights).

      I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time.

      I’ve only ever done the loop thing when I’m driving in a very relaxed way, like I say it costs me money in excess fuel through accelerating up again. Even without the money thing, it’s the inefficiency of the move that bothers me.

      At the same time, living in a country where this is an exasperating problem, it’s nice to be able to communicate with people and have them realise they’re causing a problem. Most drivers I see carry on sat in the middle lane without even realising - at least, until you make a loop, then they quickly realise and pull in. Even pulling into the inside lane and driving away in front of them causes no reaction 98/100 times.

      In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.

      I think this is skewed by your experiences driving in Germany. The standard of driving there is so much better than many other countries, particularly the UK which I’m referencing. When I’ve driven in Germany, the only real issues I’ve had have been around rush hour, the rest of the time people aren’t even in the way to begin with (or they’re driving faster than me).

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      Frankly, I think driving licenses should be subject to mandatory re-training every 5 years. Not like a pass/fail test, but a compulsory course. That way, changes in roadcraft can be taught, and bad habits can hopefully be addressed before they fester.

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      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Maybe by a strict reading of the rules, but it would certainly be hard to prove that one loop around someone would be illegal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to pull in and slow down after travelling at speeds, even if you’ve just overtaken someone.

        § 3 Absatz 2 says you’re not allowed to drive slower than necessary if it impedes traffic.

        § 4 Absatz 1 says you’re not allowed to thwart (is that the right word?) someone unless you’re forced to do. (And you got to keep your distance.)

        It’s an immediate 20€ fine, or 30€ if it caused an accident. (Bußgeldkatalog: “Tatbestand: Sie bremsten als Vorausfahrender ab, ohne dass dafür ein Grund bestand. Es kam zu einer Gefährdung des nachfolgenden Verkehrsteilnehmers.” – Fine: 20€, caused an accident: 30€)

        Next step after the 20€ fine is they treat it as coercion and that’s not a fun accusation any more.

        You’re right. The police rarely is around if you need them. And things like that happen every day. And nothing will happen in 99 point something percent this happens. But they will prosecute people for that, on the occasion that they become aware and have the time to deal with that.

        I challenge you to explain how this is more dangerous than […]

        a) You needlessly get less distance between the both of you. Now there isn’t enough space to respond to other things without crashing into you or doing dangerous maneuvers. b) The other driver could drive shittily because of a reason. Maybe they can’t drive. Or are 95 years old. Or are playing with their phone or paying attention to their GPS and that’s why they’re hogging the middle lane and doing stupid stuff. They’ll crash into you because they won’t see you in front of them. Or they look up from their phone, catch sight in the last second, get startled and start swerving around. This has happened and happens from time to time. c) You do this to a truck/lorry and the emergency brake system will get activated. Spilling the driver’s coffe and causing yet more trouble for the traffic behind them.

        I’ve only ever done the loop thing when I’m driving in a very relaxed way, […] it’s the inefficiency of the move that bothers me.

        That’s also what bothers me. You either are in a hurry and want to drive fast. Or you have all the time to lecture people and do loops. I’m always fascinated by people who combine both. They want everyone out of their way, but then suddenly muster up lots of time to do things like that. I usually honk at people or flash the lights and then I put ‘the pedal to the metal’ and get on with my day.

        If it helps, there may be some merit to this. But that hasn’t been what I’ve experienced. People will just get annoyed and either defiance kicks in or their belief that they’re right and everyone else is wrong solidifies even more.

        I think this is skewed by your experiences driving in Germany. The standard of driving there is so much better than many other countries, particularly the UK

        Yeah. I believe so, too. I’ve yet to visit the UK. Somehow I never got around to do so. Germany regularly gets praised for it’s standard of driving. And our perspective and what kind of things we have to deal with is probably very different. However, I think the percentage of idiots in the population should be around the same. And I’m basing a good amount of what I’m saying on rush hour, because sadly that’s often when you have to commute or get somewhere. I usually take the train, so I’m dealing with other issues on a daily basis.

        Frankly, I think driving licenses should be subject to mandatory re-training every 5 years. Not like a pass/fail test, but a compulsory course.

        That would upset many people and be very unpopular in politics. But I think it’d be a good idea. And everyone would benefit from a safer environment. They could also force people to do a first-aid course every now and then. I’ve witnessed 2 bicycle accidents this year and for some people the last time they heard about first-aid was 30 years ago when they got their drivers license. Just my oppinion.

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