You’re kind of an a*hile for doing the latter. But I get it. Middle lane hoggers are amongst the worst. And I have no good solution to offer.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I miss having a car that didn’t have timed pulses, like where if you tap it once you always get 3 blinks. I used to love overtaking people sat in the middle lane and then mash-tapping my inside indicator, as if to say “RRRAAHHH YOU SHOULD MOVE OVER!!” and then I would latch it on and blink normally while I pulled to the inside clear lane. Half the time, people understood what I was getting at and moved over themselves.
The other move on middle lane hoggers was to overtake them, move to the inside lane, slow down so they pass you and then move out and overtake them again. The game was to count how many times you could do this before they moved over. I never got a very high score.
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
dmention7@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Honestly the best solution, as with most traffic annoyances, is just to quietly curse at them as you go about your day and let the police deal with enforcing the laws.
When trying to teach someone a lesson, you might get the occasional person who was absent-mindedly being annoying, but most people are just going to come away from the interaction thinking YOU are the asshole. Not to mention the person who is being an asshole on purpose looking for confrontation…
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
I think you summed it up pretty well.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 10 months ago
That is literally defensive driving.
One of the really annoying things we inherited from reddit are the crowd of idiots who think the entire world can be summed up in a driver’s ed manual. Sometimes that manifests as “Driving 5 miles below the speed limit is the safest way to drive” and sometimes it manifests as… a jackass who is flooring it and swerving around traffic while flashing them with their signals because… they are maintaining the flow of traffic in the middle lane of a three lane highway?
The reality is that it doesn’t matter what the law is (unless a cop is visible). The other person getting a ticket is a weak consolation when your car is totaled and you are potentially crushed by all the god damned monster trucks on the road.
Defensive driving is about protecting yourself and, by association, the other drivers on the road. If the flow of traffic is that everyone is going 90 on a 60? You should at least be going 80 if you at all feel safe doing so because the alternative is increasingly aggressive drivers around you and an increasing likelihood of getting rear ended by someone who decides they want to pass on the right without looking ahead.
And same here. I’ve more or less learned to ignore turn signals when I am at an intersection. People aren’t turning right until they slow down and ACTUALLY start turning right. Doesn’t matter if their blinker is on because it might have been on for the past ten miles or they realize at the last second it is not the turn they want.
And that also applies to highway. I genuinely forget what the driver’s ed manual said, but let’s say that you are supposed to try to stay in the rightmost lane unless you are actively passing and the idea is that the left lane is for passing the people passing in the middle lane (that sounds wrong to me but, again, no idea). Fuck the law. Because people will randomly slow down 30 miles at a time when they start trying to read the signs to figure out what exit they are in. And “the rules of the road” are generally that the right lane is for getting on and off the highway, the middle lane is for traffic moving “at speed”, and the left lane is for passing… or driving 20 below the speed of the middle lane because you are the best driver ever but forgot what you were doing.
At the end of the day: it is about minimizing collisions (and, increasingly, lunatics with guns taking pot shots at you for existing). And a jackass who is swerving around and trying to shame people by flashing their blinkers is doing the opposite of that.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
The big assumption you’ve made is that everything I’ve described is brought out of rage.
Only flashing the indicator could perhaps be rageful, and even then it’s more of an innocuous vent than anything else.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
The best option would be for ongoing training for driving.
Police don’t enforce the laws. Police are quite happy to punish people for speeding, because it’s an easy charge to convict - it’s much harder to convict someone with the crime of sitting in the middle lane. So they don’t bother.
In my experience in the UK, most drivers actually respond to an interaction like I’ve described. When I flashed the indicator, then moved over to the inside lane, many drivers followed and moved into the inside lane. When I’ve looped around them, I’ve never been able to complete that many loops, because the other driver has realised what I’m doing and moved into the inside lane.
Communication =/= confrontation. When driving, we are very limited in our communication - but that doesn’t mean there is no way to communicate.
dmention7@lemm.ee 10 months ago
The best option would be for ongoing training for driving. Agreed 100% there!
The problem (and probably why you’re getting downvoted) is that physically using your 2-ton vehicle travelling at freeway speeds to coerce someone into doing something is not really communicating. It’s not a method prescribed by any kind of authority or training, and is actively discouraged by most! Sure it may get the result YOU want in the moment, but communication requires understanding.
Personally, if someone were to overtake me and then slow down intentionally, I’d take that as them being an inattentive driver at best, and a passive-aggressive jerk at worst.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I’d agree that it’s kind of asshole-ish, but not full blown asshole. However, it’s perfectly legitimate to do, meanwhile sitting in the middle lane is explicitly illegal in most cases. I did find that it was better to slow down with the brakes, if only lightly to show the lights, as just taking your foot off the throttle was more likely to confuse. Also, I was sure to make it two separate lane change maneuvers with clear space in front of them, not just sweeping across two lanes across someone’s nose.
Also, slowing down so that they pass you inevitably hurts you, as you end up accelerating more than necessary and reducing your fuel economy. Tbh, I don’t do it that often, precisely for that reason.
Frankly, I wish beginner driving instructors would teach what I learned in advanced driver training:
If you’re not overtaking something within 10 seconds, you should move to the inside lane.
I ended up working to 7 seconds, as I found 10 seconds was sometimes hard to judge at distance, and by the time I hummed over it I was well within the bounds of staying out. Meanwhile, if you ever drive in the Netherlands you’ll find people cutting your nose off all over the place - they pull in right away.
rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
it’s perfectly legitimate to do
Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany. It’s likely considered a form of coercion and two wrongs don’t make a right. And it’s dangerous.
Same thing to get super close to other cars on the left lane, flash your lights and have your indicators signalling to the left constantly. It’s kind of a dick move. And bad accidents have happened because of this. But it happens every day on the streets.
I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time. And there are soo many bad drivers out there. It’ll take you two minutes and the next person pulls to the left lane without having a look into the mirrors. And I don’t think it does anything to lecture those middle-lane hoggers. In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany.
Maybe by a strict reading of the rules, but it would certainly be hard to prove that one loop around someone would be illegal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to pull in and slow down after travelling at speeds, even if you’ve just overtaken someone.
And it’s dangerous.
I challenge you to explain how this is more dangerous than slowly overtaking someone at nearly the same speed.
Driving is inherently dangerous. Overtaking someone is dangerous. It’s all about the relative significance of the risk - what I’m proposing is not a significant risk in any way, especially when the maneuvers are executed properly and with care, per driver training. Specifically, you pull ahead well in front of them, move over in two moves, then don’t slow down until you’re in the inside lane (and slow down gently with inidication via the brake lights).
I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time.
I’ve only ever done the loop thing when I’m driving in a very relaxed way, like I say it costs me money in excess fuel through accelerating up again. Even without the money thing, it’s the inefficiency of the move that bothers me.
At the same time, living in a country where this is an exasperating problem, it’s nice to be able to communicate with people and have them realise they’re causing a problem. Most drivers I see carry on sat in the middle lane without even realising - at least, until you make a loop, then they quickly realise and pull in. Even pulling into the inside lane and driving away in front of them causes no reaction 98/100 times.
In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.
I think this is skewed by your experiences driving in Germany. The standard of driving there is so much better than many other countries, particularly the UK which I’m referencing. When I’ve driven in Germany, the only real issues I’ve had have been around rush hour, the rest of the time people aren’t even in the way to begin with (or they’re driving faster than me).
Frankly, I think driving licenses should be subject to mandatory re-training every 5 years. Not like a pass/fail test, but a compulsory course. That way, changes in roadcraft can be taught, and bad habits can hopefully be addressed before they fester.
sanitetah@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Hah, that’s funny though
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 10 months ago
Yeah. You are the asshole here
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Really? Go on, back that up with some objective reasoning.
tim-clark@kbin.social 10 months ago
You are going out of your way to mess around with someone at speed in a public motorway. Is it your responsibility to teach every driver? No. Your actions are adding higher risk as you are changing lanes, speeding up, slowing down around a vehicle that is staying in their lane. The justification you are using is you are better than them, while you're are creating more risk than they are. So you might be annoyed at someone in the middle of 3 lanes of travel, an adult would not increase risk for the sole benefit of their ego.
You're the asshole
TWeaK@lemm.ee 10 months ago
You’re talking about the risk of the maneuver as if it is significant and completely unwarranted. I would argue that the driver in the middle lane is causing far greater risk; they are absentmindedly driving along without any consideration for other road users or proper roadcraft. Neither of these actions are significantly risky.
I also wouldn’t call it “messing with someone”. I’m driving around them in an innocuous manner, not obstructing them or interfering with their driving in any way. The fact that they have to pay a little more attention to me is a far lesser offense than the hassle they’re causing by not adhering to the rules of the road.
It might not be my responsibility to notify another driver, but no one else is going to do it. I think my proposed action is better than letting bad driving go by completely unaddressed.
Nonetheless, thank you for your response, it was well reasoned.
TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 9 months ago
I mean, you just described driving like an asshole, what more do you want?
TWeaK@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Specifics. How is what I’ve described being an asshole?
In particular, as it apparently isn’t immediately obvious, I’m talking about a 3 lane road. With a driver sat in the middle, you overtake them, pull ahead, then move over to their lane, then move over again to the empty inside lane (where they should be) and then slow down with them still in the middle lane. You’re not brake checking them or anything, you’re demonstrating more care and attention than they are, with them sat in the middle lane without overtaking and generally obstructing traffic.
What’s wrong with that? It’s less obtrusive than honking your horn, which arguably would be appropriate when someone’s sat in the middle lane without overtaking anything.