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Comment on California introduces age verification law for all operating systems, including Linux and SteamOS — user age verified during OS account setup

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Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

This is a gift to Microsoft.

This law only applies to computers used by children. The law explicitly defines “users” as minors. It does not apply to machines used solely/primarily by adults. It does not apply to servers, or other machines with no local users. It won’t affect the tech industry directly.

This law effectively prohibits your children from (legally) using anything but Microsoft/Google products until they are 18.

With this law, Linux cannot be installed on a school computer. With a FOSS OS, the local systems administrator would be considered the OS provider, and would be liable under this idiot law.

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some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world ⁨54⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

With a FOSS OS, the local systems administrator would be considered the OS provider

Would they though? I only skimmed the bill text, but I think it might be hard to determine who is the “OS provider”, who is the “store” and who the “developers” are in the case of FOSS.

It doesn’t require a numerical age but rather an “age bracket” that the user provides during setup (<13, 13-16, 16-18, 18+) which must be “made available” to the “store” and the store must have a mechanism for picking up that “age signal” (lol).

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, (and ianal) but the language seems incredibly loose. I would not be surprised if this thing gets poked full of holes and worked around (if it doesn’t end up being tied up in court first.)

It would be hilarious if distros could just provide age bracketed ISO downloads for the under 18 brackets and say that the download of an ISO is part of the setup.

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Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Think about it this way: how do people learn enough about it to program for and admin Linux systems as adults?

Unless things changed a lot since my days (granted it was over 3 decades ago), the path to knowing all about using, administrating and programming software for running under Linux was through being able to play with it for fun as a teenager.

That said, thinking more about it, this might actually push more teenagers to try Linux out to avoid age-gating since they can just download a distro from anywhere in the World and install it in their own PC.

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- some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world ⁨52⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  Yep, and good luck figuring out who the “os provider” even is at that point.
  
  Maybe I’m misunderstanding, (and ianal) but the language in the bill is incredibly loose. I would not be surprised if this thing gets poked full of holes, and I’m not even that creative.
  
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- BlackAura@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yep. Back in the day all the Mud servers ran on Linux. I wanted to set up my own. I knew my cousin used it so I asked him about it.
  
  He never answered my questions directly. But he did show me how to look up the answer to my question using man pages and/or search for info online.
  
  That first install was so painful… My friend and I didn’t know how to set up the network and it turns out the tulip driver wasn’t installed by default. So we’d boot to Linux, try something to get the network working, write down the error message on a sheet of paper. Boot to windows to research the fix to the error message. Rinse and repeat until we finally got it working.
  
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  - Killer_Tree@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That process gave you more technical troubleshooting experience than 98% of my coworkers would ever try.
    
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- Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  This law keeps Linux out of schools and businesses. Google and MS are “Operating System Providers” and would be the responsible parties under this law.
  
  If a school sysadmin decides to adopt a Linux desktop for his school, that sysadmin becomes the “OS Provider”: they have full and complete control over the OS; they are fully responsible for everything that happens with it.
  
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  - some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world ⁨49⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    I think this might result in 3rd parties springing up as liability shields?
    
    Sure, for a low price I’ll be your “OS Provider”
    
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  - Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    My point is that forcing age-gates on anything provided via such formal systems incentivizes kids to go around those systems and install themselves an OS that doesn’t do age-gating to evade it, not necessarily at school were they’re unlikely to control the hardware, but at home.
    
    Even before this, MS and Google have used their money to create a situation were very few of the formal systems for kids to access computers, such as schools, put anything other than their OSes in front of kids, so only kids who are naturally geeks/techies might have tried Linux out on their own - those kids would always end up trying Linux out because they’re driven by curiosity and enjoyment from tinkering with Tech.
    
    My point is for the other kids, the ones who wouldn’t try out on their computing devices any OS other than the mainstream stuff that they’ve been taught about at school: with this law California might very well just have created a strong incentive for those kids to go around those formal systems and try Linux out on hardware they control, which not all will, but certainly more will that they would if there wasn’t a law in place to limit what they can do when using a mainstream OS - if there’s one thing that is common in all societies and historical times is that teenagers naturally rebel against outside control and try and find ways around it.
    
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EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
System 76 have very controversially committed to supporting this in Pop OS, so there would be at least one Linux option.

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- texture@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  oh fml seriously? system 76 what the hell!??!
  
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HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Where did you get that?

The law’s broad definition of an “operating system provider” […] pulls in not just Windows, macOS, Android, and iOS, but Linux distributions and Valve’s SteamOS.

Doesn’t seem like Windows is somehow excluded.

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- texture@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  they arent saying that windows is excluded, they are saying that windows will offer the option to enter age, linux wont and hence linux wont be an option for schools etc.
  
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  - Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Even if Linux offers the option, school districts won’t use it. The district itself will be considered the “OS Provider” under this law, if they choose to use a FOSS OS. They have complete and total control over the OS. That makes them liable, rather than leaving that liability with Microsoft or Google.
    
    This sort of regulation violates the first amendment right to speech, the first amendment right to free association, antitrust, and a whole shitload of really good law.
    
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    Crozekiel@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Nothing about it specifically changes if it is Windows or Linux. By the definitions in the bill, they are just as much the “OS Provider” under Windows as they are Linux.
    
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    texture@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    makes sense
    
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