Comment on Google criticizes Europe's plan to adopt free software

• TheTechnician27@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Okay, so:

  I tried installing a program called “hardinfo”. My ZorinOS software store didn’t find it through flathub.

  That’s fair. Fragmentation is a real thing on Linux, and it seems like Ultimate Systems didn’ put their software on Flathub.

  So I googled it, found a .deb file, which my Zorin store loaded up to install.

  So instead of just using apt – like every introductory tutorial to Ubuntu and its derivatives leads off with – you chose to do it (effectively) the Windows way that you’re familiar with where you go hunt and peck around the Internet for an install file. It’s an understandable mistake, but the blame from this point on lies squarely on you.

  Then I hit install, and it spits out a message like “Software was not installed. Requires these three dependancies, which will not be installed”. Didn’t tell me why they didn’t install. Just said "Hardinfo needs these programs. Good luck figuring it out asshole.

  You didn’t have the dependencies, and it told you which ones to install. Why does it need to tell you why it needs them? Nice to have, I guess, but if it’s mandatory, it’s mandatory. No amount of explanation is going to get you around the fact that this software will not function without them. Dependencies aren’t a Linux thing; they’re a reality of modern programming. And I imagine apt would’ve automatically resolved this and asked you to also install the deps.

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  • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So instead of just using apt – like every introductory tutorial to Ubuntu and its derivatives leads off with – you chose to do it (effectively) the Windows way that you’re familiar with where you hunt and peck around the Internet for an install file.

    Because in 20+ years of off and on using linux, I’ve never once gotten apt to install anything. I have however fucked up my whole system by doing sudo apt update/sudo apt upgrade.

    I avoid terminal like the plauge.

    You didn’t have the dependencies, and it told you which ones to install. Why does it need to tell you why it needs them?

    I didn’t say I want to know why it needs them. I’m upset it tells me that it tells me it needs them, and then says “they won’t be installed”, but won’t tell me WHY they won’t be installed. If the program needs those dependancies, just install them. Instead it juat says “we know you need the dependancies, but we’re not going to do that”.

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    • anothermember@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Because in 20+ years of off and on using linux, I’ve never once gotten apt to install anything. I have however fucked up my whole system by doing sudo apt update/sudo apt upgrade.

      Sorry but that’s really not typical, you must have been doing something out of the ordinary or been very unlucky.

      I didn’t say I want to know why it needs them. I’m upset it tells me that it tells me it needs them, and then says “they won’t be installed”, but won’t tell me WHY they won’t be installed. If the program needs those dependancies, just install them. Instead it juat says “we know you need the dependancies, but we’re not going to do that”.

      It’s the package manager that handles dependencies, not the program you’re trying to install. Random programs shouldn’t be able to just install things on your computer. Did you try installing the dependencies?

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      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Did you try installing the dependencies?

        I have zero clue how to do that. I don’t even know what file extention they would be, or where I would get them, or what step 1 would be to installing them.

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      • poweruser@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        sudo apt update/sudo apt upgrade

        It is actually very easy to break your install by doing this if you have made a habit of installing random .deb files from around the internet

        APT can’t update things that are not in the repository and .deb files typically only work for a specific version of the OS (which is to say, they will probably work when you install them but break when you update).

        You should in general never install a .deb file directly. Sometimes it might be necessary in order to install a program that the developer doesn’t support, but that lack of support should be a flashing warning light that the package will probably break something in the future.

        There are ways to purge your system of orphaned .deb installs, and I suggest doing that before large upgrades

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    • TheTechnician27@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I wasn’t necessarily suggesting apt in the CLI; just the APT repository generally, which ZorinOS’ built-in package manager has. If sudo apt install hardinfo will find it, I have to imagine the GUI frontend will. Granted I don’t use Ubuntu because it and its derivatives are terrible, so I can’t say for sure, but this sure doesn’t seem like their fault.

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      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I didn’t try to use sudo apt install hardinfo, but the software store will find things from flatpack, snap, a few others.

        It did not find hardinfo.

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• Lembot_0006@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Do dependencies work somehow differently under Windows? If a win program lacks some library it would say just the same: “I need an additional library. Install it.”

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  • grue@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    In Windows, every program is usually packaged with all of its dependencies (except really basic ones that are part of the OS, or very common extra ones like the Java or .NET libraries). They don’t get installed separately, you just get a fuckton of extra copies, of various assorted versions, because every program you install has its own.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Good luck with the redistributables who are not allowed to be put in distribution packages, but must be installed from m$.

      Why they are not part of the base OS is a mystery for me, it’s so stupid it must be some ulterior reason.

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  • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    In windows, any decent program will say “this program needs these dependancies. Would you like to install them?” And I hit yes.

    In linux it says “This program won’t install because it needs these dependancies first. We won’t help you install them. You figure it out.”

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    • cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In Linux, the package manager will ask you if you want to install the dependencies. You don’t have to install them manually unless you’re compiling the program from source.

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      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Well…it didn’t. It told me hardinfo would need 3 dependancies. Then said it wasn’t going to install them.

        It listed the 3 dependancies it needed, but said they will not be installed.

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• SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Username checks out.

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• mr_satan@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t know how many times I had to deal with missing VCRUNTIME140.dll or MSVCP140.dll or other crap on Windows. This is not a Linux exclusive problem.
  Reading through the comment thread I can’t help but think that your whole situation is self imposed.

  Dependency problems are universal and there are tools to deal with it. It just seems that you’re refusing to use those tools (even Windows has winget now instead of relying on every installer bundling / linking its dependencies).
  Now, it’s fair to not want to deal with CLI, but your cited experience is an outlier. It is not normal to break your system with just apt update && apt upgrade -y. As a matter of fact apt will not upgrade if there are conflicting dependencies, you sort of have to force it to break your system.
  There are wrappers that provide a GUI for apt (and even dpkg, which is usually invoked when double clicking a .deb file) so why not using them?

  In Windows dependency issues are often offloaded to the provider of the software, but they are still just as present. In Linux this problem was solved[^1] a different way — via package managers. I don’t want to be the “skill issue” guy, but refusing to use the platform intended tool to solve a problem is kind of a “skill issue”. At some point you are responsible for knowing how to use an OS, just as you are responsible for knowing how to drive a car if you want to drive a car.

  [^1]: dependency hell is still an issue so take the word with a grain of salt.

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• daggermoon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is a Zorin/Ubuntu issue. I installed it from the AUR on my Arch system and it just worked. Don’t buy into the memes. Arch isn’t any harder. It’s just different.

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  • wax@feddit.nu ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah… don’t recommend arch to a person that refuses understand the workflow on linux, please.

    It doesn’t work exactly as on Windows, well, fuck you. I have enough trouble supporting my AUR packages due to people on derivative distributions. I don’t have time to deal with self-entitled assholes.

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  • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’ve read that just installing arch is a whole ordeal in itself.

    You’re talking to a guy who won’t touch terminal because on 6 different occasions I’ve bricked a whole hard drive just by using sudo apt update/ sudo apt upgrade incorrectly.

    And you expect me to understand ARCH???

    Are you high?

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    • daggermoon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Arch has an install script built in. If you want a gui installer then CachyOS and endeavourOS is Arch with the same gui installer Zorin has. I promise it’s not difficult if you installed and used Zorin.

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