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Comment on Most of the misery in the world is the direct result of too much money in too few unscrupulous hands. This is not only the cause of the vast majority of human suffering, but also of climate change, wh

CromulantCrow@lemmy.zip ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

Sure, we want to blame climate change on the fossil fuel industry, the capitalist owners thereof, the big industries, long haul ocean shipping, etc. But I don’t think it’s realistic. Imagine the situation a few hundred years ago. We burned wood to keep warm in the winter. We cut down forests and pre-burned them in vast quantities to make charcoal which we then used in smelters to make iron and steel, in kilns to make pottery and glass, in steam engines to turn all sorts of things. We were on track to cut down every tree on the planet to use for one of those things. Then we found fossil fuels. They were better than wood in every way, except that the generated CO2 wasn’t renewable. Any nation that used them surged ahead of all others in productivity, defense, offense, and quality of life. To refuse to use them, even if you knew they would kill us all a few hundred years later, meant that you got outcompeted, and probably overrun or conquered. There was no option. So everyone used them more and more. That’s been the story ever since. It’s a Faustian bargain. You get comfort and success now and someday one of your ancestors will suffer. But you figure that they will be smart enough then to solve the problem so you don’t worry about it. Yes, our economic system guarantees that a small number of people will profit from it the most. And they will make it worse one way or another. But climate getting worse just a matter of time. Even if we had the most enlightened people making decisions for us who would agree when they said we all had to stop using fossil fuels? There is almost nothing you use in your life that isn’t made with fossil fuels somehow. And it’s too late now. We can’t go back. We can’t all be subsistence farmers. There are too many of us. We can’t survive without fossil fuels.

tl;dr - yeah, the capital owners are awful, but climate change would have happened without them.

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TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

There was no option. So everyone used them more and more. That’s been the story ever since. It’s a Faustian bargain. You get comfort and success now and someday your ancestors will suffer.

I mean that’s just a false narrative. We’ve know about the negative effects of fossil fuels on the climate since the early 20th century. Back then there may have been no other viable alternative. However, that’s not the case after the beginnings of the nuclear age in the 1950s.

The only reason we have been as dependent on fossil fuels is because of fossil fuel corporations influence over government. No one is saying that we needed to completely divest from fossil fuels all together. If we just used it for things like plastics, fertilizer, or just divested from using it for power plants it would have prevented the crisis we are having today.

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- bizarroland@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yeah, the current crises have all got one similar social foundation, and that is this:
  
  middle-class people are aware that it would upset their rich bosses if they raised a hue and cry about it
  
  When the middle class people step out of line, they get fired, they get demoted, they sometimes get thrown out of a window (accidentally), or they kill themselves, supposedly, according to the coroner’s report.
  
  So if we start killing the rich people or forcing them to sign contracts saying that their wealth requires that they provide for the lessors, then what bad actually happens?
  
  The world becomes a happier, better place that’s cleaner and healthier and we have fewer poor people and?
  
  The only downside is that some of us middle class people might die in the process.
  
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Osan@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Sure fossil fuel was necessary for some time but the only reason we kept going and still dependent on it despite the technological advancements and available alternatives is because of big corporations and some politicians who benefit from the industry (either financially or politically).

We could’ve stopped contributing to climate change some time ago but we choose not to. We can even do it today but we won’t. Change has been painstakingly way slower than necessary because some rich people decided it was not worth the effort.

It’s amazing what humans can achieve when we work together. We stopped using Chlorofluorocarbons and found viable alternatives when we decided it was worth the effort. We’ve eradicated smallpox ffs and we could’ve eradicated more diseases if we choose to.

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- chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  That’s simply not true. We don’t even have the technology and resources today to achieve a zero carbon economy. We need a ton of new investment across a ton of industries.
  
  I think the average person believes that we can just switch gasoline cars over to EVs and we’re done. That’s not even close! Less than 1/6th of emissions come from transport (all cars, trucks, trains, and ships combined).
  
  Since CO2 emissions grow by about 0.9% per year, even if we eliminated all emissions from transport overnight (but did nothing else) it would buy us less than 20 years before emissions were back where we started.
  
  There’s no silver bullet that billionaires are somehow hiding from us. Curbing emissions is going to take huge investments across many different sectors of the economy and new technologies in many different industries. Take solar panels for example. We could not have achieved their modern levels of efficiency and production capacity without going through decades of advancement in semiconductor technology. No one was holding that technology back. It has seen enormous investment since the mid 20th century for the development of faster CPUs and GPUs. Solar simply rode on the coattails of the computer revolution. It could not have advanced the way it has on its own.
  
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DandomRude@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The thing is: it is no longer necessary to burn fossil fuels for transportation or energy production. The idea that this is still necessary is a narrative fueled by the money of a few unscrupulous people, which is what this random post is about. It is a lie that will lead us all to ruin.

We simply cannot continue the status quo. This conclusion is not just my opinion, but a proven fact that, to my knowledge, no reputable scientist would dispute.

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- CromulantCrow@lemmy.zip ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Well, your showerthought post was basically rich people cause suffering and climate change. It’s true they generate a hugely disproportionate amount of CO2. But my point (and maybe it wasn’t clear) was that when there is an easy energy resource just sitting underground, it’s going to get used whether by rich people or not. It provides too much of an advantage. Having coal and oil at your disposal is like having a near endless supply of free workers. One liter of gasoline, when used in an engine, produces roughly 2 to 4 kWh of mechanical energy, equivalent to the daily labor of about 100 people. No society is going to turn down that many guiltless slave workers. We were told 100 years ago it was going to cause climate change, but we didn’t have the technology to replace it with electric at the time. Effective batteries are a recent invention. So there really was no alternative. Your neighbor country is making use of millions of ‘energy slaves’ and growing their population like crazy. Are you going to continue plowing your fields with donkeys and hoping you can feed your people? No, using that energy was inevitable.
  
  And now? Theoretically we could replace our energy infrastructure with renewables. In the US it would take at least 5 trillion dollars and who knows how long and how much energy to do it. But I don’t think it’ll stop climate change. Call me a doomer, but I think it’s already too late for that. We’ve already released enough CO2 to kill the planet. The effects just take about ten years or more to show.
  
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