Comment on The crusade against Lemmy devs, lemmy.ml, and so-called "tankies"
Objection@lemmy.ml 11 hours agoYou can describe literally any perspective as a conspiracy theory if you just lie about it enough.
If that’s the game you want to play instead of having a real discussion, then fine:
You worship Kamala Harris as a divine being who will show you the true path into the holy kingdom, but only if you shun the nonbelievers and keep your eyes pure from the treasonous heresies of the left.
Deny that it’s a religious cult all you want, ask anyone in my communities and they’ll know what I’m talking about. See how that works?
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 hours ago
If we had a real discussion, it would go like me sending evidence NK isn’t a great place, and you telling me the CIA planted it all. Or at least, that’s how it usually goes. Either I actually am in the most boring spy novel ever, or that’s conspiracy talk.
Do you want to talk about North Korea on the condition you can’t just say things are definitely fabricated without evidence? I don’t have a huge trove of stuff ready, but it won’t be hard to find, because there’s a lot of defectors and a lot of imagery.
Objection@lemmy.ml 11 hours ago
I’m happy to have an evidence-based discussion about whatever you like. Only, against my actual beliefs and not shit that you make up about me/us and then spread around in your circles to the point that you forget you made it up and start thinking that it’s actually true.
To start with, I don’t believe that the DPRK is “a great place.” I’m just willing to refute blatant misinformation about it, even if that leads to me being accused of “defending” it or of conspiracy theories about me being some kind of secret agent, paid to promote it.
I would prefer that we have a conversation that’s based on people’s actual, stated positions. If you want to claim that I’m a delusional conspiracy theorist, then point to what I’ve actually said that leads you to believe that. Not stereotypes and myths that you’ve seen passed around in your in-group that have nothing to do with me.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 hours ago
This is from observing entire instances. Maybe you’re lost, that’s fair.
Soo, last I checked (pre-Gaza), North Korea had the highest rates of malnutrition in the world, and most of their population received an education mainly about loving the regime. Their elections are not secret ballot at all, are just approve or disapprove, and I’m certain using the dissent box has implications. They’re vastly poorer than their southern neighbors despite being indistinguishable at the time of the Korean War. Meanwhile, their leadership lives in luxury. I see no redeeming qualities there, and it would have been better if they’d lost and just gritted their teeth through the junta years. Oh yeah, and they regularly threaten to burn down cities elsewhere with everyone inside if.
Anything wrong there?
Objection@lemmy.ml 10 hours ago
Not a single source in the whole thing is the first thing wrong.
Hey, me too!
Interesting! You’re “certain,” are you? Where does that “certainty” come from, exactly? Evidence? Or does it just “feel true” to you, based on vibes? Does it just have that certain quality of “truthiness,” to it?
The Korean War was far more devastating to the north than the south. But that’s not especially relevant, in fact, the north recovered and did rather well for itself. However, it’s economy was closely tied to the USSR, and when it collapsed the DPRK became both economically and diplomatically isolated.
Any country that’s cut off from global trade is pretty much condemned to poverty. This is a big part of why Vietnam introduced reforms that would make it more amenable to the West, and likewise with China. But of course, you hate them too, despite taking a different direction and being more successful, don’t you?
Do they? Do you have a source?
Oh yes, they’re so aggressive and threatening! Let’s just ignore the part where the largest military exercises in the world are conducted by the US on the border, a recreation of the time they invaded and slaughtered a bunch of them and dropped chemical weapons everywhere.
But no, the US, with the largest military force in the world, larger than the next 9 countries combined, that has been in a constant state of war all across the world, installing fascist puppet regimes, that US, needs to live in terror of this tiny poor country an ocean away. Very rational and sane.