I don’t want it to be combined. Different communities have VERY different conversations on the same content.
Comment on The problem of cross-community posting
julian@activitypub.space 2 days ago
Yes. It is being worked on, and you are not far off.
Respondents here have mentioned that Piefed and Lemmy list cross-posts in places, sometimes in the community listing, sometimes in the post itself.
That's missing the point, which is that the conversations should be combined.
Take it a step further, though. You shouldn't have to combine posts, they should all be the same post.
So how do we get there? Both Piefed and Lemmy do this internally, and don't expose this to other instances. NodeBB (aka me) is hoping to explore this question and put in the protocol research to make this a reality. I'll be working together with members of the Forum and Threaded Discussions Working Group about these things. (@forum-wg@community.nodebb.org)
The issue (as usual) is buy-in from Lemmy and Piefed (and don't forget mbin!) We all have to move in lockstep so that nobody gets left behind.
We've only just started discussions on how this might work, but hopefully we'll be able to make this a reality soon.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 day ago
Blaze@piefed.zip 2 days ago
How does moderation work in this case?
julian@activitypub.space 1 day ago
That's one of the issues that need to be worked through. It's a totally legitimate concern.
In cases where communities with polarising viewpoints discuss the same topic, it would lead to inter-community disputes and exacerbate some instance relationships.
One solution would be to have the original community be responsible for moderation, and moderation actions from cross-posted communities only affect their "view", so to speak.
I don't know what the answer is quite yet.
Blaze@piefed.zip 1 day ago
and moderation actions from cross-posted communities only affect their “view”, so to speak.
But then if someone posts insults (just to take a simple example), then the original community mods would have to moderate it, and can’t rely on the cross-posted communities mods? Wouldn’t that lead to cross-posted communities mods just consider that the original community mods are the ones responsible for the moderation, and leave it up to them?
And in that case, then the OG community mods would probably just prefer all the comments to happen on their community where they can delete comments and ban people.
lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org 15 hours ago
Agree, this basically feels like it would generate various dark incentives in the Fediverse. A bit far too similar to the social networks we are supposed to escape from, even.
yyprum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Not OP and not involved at all in the development of the fediverse. But this is how I would do it, and if someone gets inspiration from it feel free to use it.
Upon creating a post, unlike now, it wouldn’t be created for a community. Instead posts would be created under an instance. Each instance would have its own rules about posts and the admins of an instance can always decide to remove/edit/hide/whatever the post from the whole instance. As a user of an instance I’d assume they should follow the rules entirely of that instance at any time they interact in it.
Each post then could have a list of communities it is posted to. A post with no community would be part of a kinda global no-community community with the instance name or something (a different instance would then see it as a community-less post from an instance and can show it just like that.
Each community would have its own mod team and rules. As a post doesn’t belong in a community, mods cannot remove or edit the post. But if a post breaks rules of a community that are not rules of the instance (like an instance that allows nsfw but the community does not), the mods can choose to hide any post from the community, and maybe even control if the user can attach a post again to the community.
That would include communities in other instances, which would link to the original post to take into account changes and what not. But now, both admins and mods can only hide the post, from the whole instance or the community respectively.
Comments belong to the post, of course, but comments could have some user modifiable field to exactly say what community they saw the post in and browsing the comments would be allowed to filter by community, and just like now, comments need to follow the rules of the instance. Mods can choose to hide comments specifically but only mods in that server can remove the full comment
Blaze@piefed.zip 1 day ago
That’s a complete overhaul compared to what Lemmy/PieFed/Mbin are doing now.
If someone wants to implement that vision, sure, but it probably won’t happen until a few years.
The NodeBB proposition might be different as they already have their forum structure
julian@activitypub.space 1 day ago
@blaze@piefed.zip said in The problem of cross-community posting:
That's a complete overhaul compared to what Lemmy/PieFed/Mbin are doing now.
That might be the case, but it really depends on how the backend is structured. Are the posts and communities so strictly structured that a post cannot be a part of multiple communities? (@rimu@piefed.social just pinging you about this)
In NodeBB categories and topics are all distinct elements, and the fact that a topic belongs in a category is contrived. A topic could be part of a user (pinned topics anyone?), a group (group only conversations?), or in this case... multiple categories.
julian@activitypub.space 1 day ago
Yup. This is how NodeBB does it, and why cross posting will work with less of an overhaul.
BCOVertigo@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Take it a step further, though. You shouldn’t have to combine posts, they should all be the same post.
Can you elaborate?
SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 day ago
Disagree. As OP points out, there is value in separating the discussions as well.
julian@activitypub.space 16 hours ago
There is, but I am not sold on giving up entirely on the idea simply because disparate communities might not want to talk to another.
I agree that treading lightly is paramount, but the benefits of cross-community interaction could very much be worth it!
One thing is for sure: making this an opt-out is not the way forward.