Im not an expert dog trainer. Its also not a very prestigious title. I have loved an animal and have been responsible for their well being. From that perspective, I cant help but feel hurt for Kaya. Do I think the state has any right to intercede, probably not. I also dont have to compromise my beliefs because they shouldn’t act in this situation.
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 19 hours ago
And I think we can bring this back to cultish behavior as per the OP’s shower thought. Regardless of how one feels about Hasan’s treatment of his dog, its hard to navigate who is coming to this argument in good faith around animal abuse, and who are angry with Hasan for unrelated reasons and simply want to tear him down due to numerous other unrelated grievances (i.e.. blind faith in a leader and blind condemnation of any criticism of said leader).
If Hasan was a virtual nobody in terms of fame and had posted the same video, I doubt it would have received as much scrutiny or ire, and thusly the perception around those who still came to discuss the video would be that of people talking in good faith (and not just trying to smear someone’s reputation).
I will admit I am increasingly frustrated that cult mentality creates a sort of fog around these discussions, as it’s hard to tell who wants to have a genuine discussion and who just wants to tear down the reputation of someone with whom they have a grudge. And sadly this pervades many disagreements online like this one you and I have.
Neither of us can tell if one is sincere or not. And perhaps even worse, even if we both are sincere in our convictions (which I believe we are), its incredibly difficult if not impossible for us both to devote the time and effort to have a nuanced discussion on the topic, let alone change laws about it. But the positive side is that our discussion here still has the small potential to influence people’s minds on the topic, so at least there’s that.
As an aside, I am only vaguely aware of the various other dramas around Hasan.I followed his drama with Ethan Klein for a time and admittedly came out favoring Hasan’s side of the story on that one. The rest of it I only occasionally tune into.
Anyways, I think you and I have at least come to a mutually respectful disagreement, and unless you wanted to continue this discussion further, I’m content to conclude it here.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 hours ago
I can settle with that. Forgive me for not giving the due respect for how youve navigated this discussion like a gentlemen but Im not in the habit of dredging up post history and been burnt before.
To address Hasan’s cult. I often default, because its more satisfying than imagining the entire world is just rube after rube, that much of his audience is manufactured. Its scary because it does fuck with people who are still developing and cant see through the veil as clearly.
We accept that animal abuse is just a thing happening all over. Its when we elevate the abuser when I feel the most injustice.
Lets face it, cults behavior is just a part of life. I look at the democrats, though I shouldn’t in this political environment, and see myself compromising my morals because of the illusion of helplessness. The fact is, no one should be ok with america giving isreal money. Not even for the sake of their own well being but even in aggregate, unless support is widespread, we can sacrifice ourselves and only cause frustration within. If we are going to put our own well being on the line it has to be in more meaningful ways.
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 14 hours ago
No apology is necessary, though I appreciate the sentiment. It’s sadly just the way internet discourse goes most of the time.
I generally agree with your last post here, and I’m starting to think our disagreement is closer to one of semantics than a fundamental one.
I’m a bit optimistic at least that the era of the debate bros is probably closer to it’s end than it’s beginning or zenith. So hopefully that offers some solace to your concerns.
The question is how do we all offer the next generation a better model for how to engage in discourse, for which I’m open to suggestions, as I’ll admit I’m a bit at a loss on that one, but I don’t think we can ever go back to the debate styles of the past.
Regardless of all that, keep on the good path, fellow traveler. And I’ll see you around Lemmy.