Youre delving in too deep of water for me to address it here. I appreciate your point of view but we, as randoms on the internet, do not have to report to have nuanced discussion the law behind this.
The law is very limited in what it has the ability to litigate and honestly, our laws reflect this. We would also have to discuss what constitutes expert testimony. Expert opinion is not science its just relaying heuristics.
I’ve been consistent in my assessment from the get go. If you want nuance and not just moral oral we would need to start with mutual respect. That doesnt just materialize because we exchanged messages online.
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 19 hours ago
Fair enough. And I’ll at least concede its unlikely we’d come to a satisfying meeting of the minds here. Animal Abuse and what constitutes it is admittedly a somewhat complex topic that is still and probably will forever be evolving.
And it’s not like I don’t get the emotional aspect to this. I’ve had life long pets (cats, not dogs), and I hate the thought of abusing any animal. But the debate around what constitutes animal abuse ranges from people wanting to grant human rights to some/all animals all the way to poachers not giving any fucks about any animal’s well being.
This is why I do default to experts. And yeah, its some expert on the internet that I simply perceive as having put in his two cents in good faith, but I just value that opinion over so many in the debate bros space because its just an endless sea of bias in that sphere. Ironically my bias against that corner of the internet means I have a bias towards others outside of that world.
That said, I’ll still stand by my belief that an expert opinion has more value than a non expert, but that doesn’t negate your opinion that an expert’s opinion isn’t consensus and one’s individual conscience shouldn’t be considered in the discussion.
Again, all fair enough.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 hours ago
Im not an expert dog trainer. Its also not a very prestigious title. I have loved an animal and have been responsible for their well being. From that perspective, I cant help but feel hurt for Kaya. Do I think the state has any right to intercede, probably not. I also dont have to compromise my beliefs because they shouldn’t act in this situation.
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 19 hours ago
And I think we can bring this back to cultish behavior as per the OP’s shower thought. Regardless of how one feels about Hasan’s treatment of his dog, its hard to navigate who is coming to this argument in good faith around animal abuse, and who are angry with Hasan for unrelated reasons and simply want to tear him down due to numerous other unrelated grievances (i.e.. blind faith in a leader and blind condemnation of any criticism of said leader).
If Hasan was a virtual nobody in terms of fame and had posted the same video, I doubt it would have received as much scrutiny or ire, and thusly the perception around those who still came to discuss the video would be that of people talking in good faith (and not just trying to smear someone’s reputation).
I will admit I am increasingly frustrated that cult mentality creates a sort of fog around these discussions, as it’s hard to tell who wants to have a genuine discussion and who just wants to tear down the reputation of someone with whom they have a grudge. And sadly this pervades many disagreements online like this one you and I have.
Neither of us can tell if one is sincere or not. And perhaps even worse, even if we both are sincere in our convictions (which I believe we are), its incredibly difficult if not impossible for us both to devote the time and effort to have a nuanced discussion on the topic, let alone change laws about it. But the positive side is that our discussion here still has the small potential to influence people’s minds on the topic, so at least there’s that.
As an aside, I am only vaguely aware of the various other dramas around Hasan.I followed his drama with Ethan Klein for a time and admittedly came out favoring Hasan’s side of the story on that one. The rest of it I only occasionally tune into.
Anyways, I think you and I have at least come to a mutually respectful disagreement, and unless you wanted to continue this discussion further, I’m content to conclude it here.
Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 hours ago
I can settle with that. Forgive me for not giving the due respect for how youve navigated this discussion like a gentlemen but Im not in the habit of dredging up post history and been burnt before.
To address Hasan’s cult. I often default, because its more satisfying than imagining the entire world is just rube after rube, that much of his audience is manufactured. Its scary because it does fuck with people who are still developing and cant see through the veil as clearly.
We accept that animal abuse is just a thing happening all over. Its when we elevate the abuser when I feel the most injustice.
Lets face it, cults behavior is just a part of life. I look at the democrats, though I shouldn’t in this political environment, and see myself compromising my morals because of the illusion of helplessness. The fact is, no one should be ok with america giving isreal money. Not even for the sake of their own well being but even in aggregate, unless support is widespread, we can sacrifice ourselves and only cause frustration within. If we are going to put our own well being on the line it has to be in more meaningful ways.