Sure, Mr or Ms “I knew it all along”. But even most respected analysts thought the first Trump term was “fascist-adjacent”. Even though Slavoj Zizek was correct that voting outsiders is the correct thing to do to shake up the corrupt status quo, he was wrong to say that Trump isn’t fascist until the second term. Hindsight is 20/20.
MudMan@fedia.io 3 weeks ago
What? Everybody thought fascism would come from the inside in the US. Even if you slept through the first Trump term this has been a thing since the 1930s. Surely during the Cold War, and definitely externally, but... I mean, were you alive during the whole "war on terror" nonsense?
Had the post-Reagan, post 9-11 US fascists successfully brainwashed even left of centre normies into thinking that was not the case? Were Americans that oblivious?
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
MudMan@fedia.io 3 weeks ago
I mean... yeah, but also I'm very well on the record disagreeing with that and calling Trump a fascist since day one. Not that I expect you dig through my online presence to corroborate it.
I'm not American. The presence of fascists in US politics has been a commonly accepted truth in anybody anywhere left of demochristians for half a century. This isn't "hindsigh", it's "I recommend always reading what people say about your country in foreign newspapers".
And for the record, we got fascists, too. We're just less shy about calling them that, maybe? Certainly don't have any delusions about ourselves in terms of being inoculated from fascism at a fundamental level. The idea that Americans would have survived Bush, let alone the overtly fascist Trump without noticing or acknowledging it seems outright bizarre to me, but there you go.
I mean, Stephen Miller isn't even shy about it. Even if you are the kind of European that would argue Berlusconi wasn't a fascist and could maaaaaybe entertain Trump is on that same level you surely would have had zero questions after hearing five minutes of Dracula Hitler back in 2016.
SARGE@startrek.website 3 weeks ago
m not American. The presence of fascists in US politics has been a commonly accepted truth in anybody anywhere left of demochristians for half a century.
I am an American and idk where this idea comes from because I’ve been noticing a decline at least since high school political science forced me to pay attention for the first time. It’s been hard not to notice the slope getting steeper every day.
MNByChoice@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
It is possible to do an internet search for a date range. Looking at 2016, there were many articles regarding fascism and Trump. Here is just one:
forbes.com/…/yes-a-trump-presidency-would-bring-f…
It is true that many people were uncertain if Trump was a full on fascist, or if he was thwarted by a lack of reading. Which sounds like a lie. I am cherry picking this quote.
Do you think that Trump is consciously using fascist tropes, or do you think that he’s just sort of stumbled into this?
I doubt it’s conscious. I don’t think he’s a bookish man. I’m sure he’s never read a book about Hitler or Mussolini.
slate.com/…/is-donald-trump-a-fascist-an-expert-o…MudMan@fedia.io 3 weeks ago
Honestly, even at the time that entire "benefit of the doubt" garbage read like some combination of active collaboration and outright denial. It's nuts that Trump rode it to a second term, honestly. As late as the week of the election people were having haughty conversations about the ties between Project 2025 and the Trump campaign and those morons still elected them again because Harris was too weak on Israel or whatever.
I mean, I'd normally not assume an entire culture is entirely incapable of parsing reality, but there are still supposed American leftists going "they're both the same" on this site right now.
Which reminds me I'm trying to cut off American politics from my media menu as much as possible, so maybe it's time to mute this stuff and move on with my day, because man, what a group of weirdos.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I think they’re right. Fascism is at its core a blind grasp for power by any means necessary. You don’t have to know anything about the history of fascism to do the exact same things as the ones of the past because it just sort of happens naturally. Now, Trump is obviously made aware that he’s following fascist tropes, but he just says they were smart guys and he likes how they think and moves on…unless you actually use the word “fascist.” That means “bad,” so clearly he can’t be that, no matter how much he does literally everything a fascist would do.
Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
the democratic process had been breaking down since the beginning of the cold war, just because the exact moment wasnt known doesnt mean it wasnt inevitable.
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Just because you were ignorant and bought the propaganda doesn’t mean everyone has. The US has always been an imperialist bully built on rampant capitalism, nationalism, and a misguided self-image of being exceptional. Instead of whining and incorrectly projecting that everyone was as gullible as you, perhaps you should focus on asking others to help you understand the US and its place globally in history, so you are less susceptible to more propaganda.
If even a fraction of the general US population was willing or capable of recognizing the reality of what the US is and has done, we’d be much better equipped to deal with the situation we’re in. Instead, most choose to get indignant if you even dare to suggest they may be or were the bad guy at any moment ever.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Your media has been covering up for this descent into fascism my entire lifetime and I’m in my 30s. They literally, jingoistically called for the US to invade foreign countries, fear-mongered for views, all while dragging my country into those wars lest we end up like “freedom fries” France. I guess if you grew up in the Obama era, there would have seemed like a brief respite from the descent into fascism, but it was all political spin and no substance. Sitting where I am, the Democrats are a right-leaning party. THAT’S your “left wing” so anything further right is obviously going to be fascist in a country so nationalistic.
Trump LITERALLY incited an insurrection during his first term. Any “respected analyst” that wouldn’t call him a fascist just had too much faith in your already very broken institutions.
Mx is the gender neutral btw.
jaaake@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Everybody in this space, yeah, absolutely.
Everybody who is informed and has been paying attention, definitely.
Everybody in the voting public of the US, not so much.
American exceptionalism is a real thing. The vast majority of the country has been fed fairytales about how they live in a perfect utopia where things are always getting better. They were taught that they were the richest, strongest, smartest, nicest, and most popular country in the world. Hollywood and the press barraged them with the message that everybody wants to either be them, be friends with them, or they’re an evil person with no understandable motive that seeks to destroy them so that they can take over the world and rule with an iron fist. They won every war they’ve ever fought in, usually showing up to save the day in conflicts that aren’t their own, just because they’re that kind, generous, and always looking out for the little guy. Nothing bad ever happens within the impenetrable borders, and when it does, it’s just a freak accident or a single bad apple.
A shocking number of people began to interpret “American” exceptionalism as something that only applies to the largest part of the population, the straight, cis, white, Christian. Suddenly everyone outside any one of those categories becomes un-American and therefore the evil person who cannot be understood and deserves no sliver of empathy in attempts to do so.
Those people voted for Trump.
Twice.
In 2024 they made up the popular vote. That’s the majority of America. That’s what this country was then. That is “everybody.”
It’s crazy how long it’s taking for people to wake up. It seems like if the election would happen today, Trump wouldn’t win, but that approval rating might swing if his opponent is anything other than a straight, white, masculine, cisgendered man, with multiple children who all celebrate Christmas together.
When will the truth become mainstream? What additional atrocities will need to occur before Trump becomes as universally hated as Hitler? I honestly feel like we’re not there yet. If anything happens to Trump now, it seems that nearly half the country will turn him into a martyr before realizing they are free of the figurehead of a fascist oligarchy.
other_cat@piefed.zip 3 weeks ago
Given the amount of people still proudly sporting Trump merch in the rural area I live, I do think he’d still win. I literally don’t understand these people, the sheer lack of… anything. Awareness. Empathy. Self-preservation!?
The only person I vaguely know well enough to take a crack at why she’s like this, is because she herself is a raging narcissist who wants to be special and feel special. So she aligns her views with the person who tells her “You’re special!” and gives her that desperate validation. Morals become secondary to feeling good rather than being the source of it. It’s incredibly sad.