Comment on Think of the children
HipHoboHarold@lemmy.world 9 months agoTechnically communism should be a moneyless, stateless society. No government to give taxes to. No corporations to take your money. No money to take. No one to force things. It’s all for the people by the people. The idea that you’re pointing to communism as force in order to defend your decision to vote republican on an article about pedophelia is pretty telling. This is why some people assume libertarians want to fuck kids.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Same questions as to the other commenter:
If my [labor] is the peoples’ labor, what recorsue do the people have if I want to horde? Force. What if Im a [widget] maker and the people want [widget]… What happens if Im done from making [widget] and the people still need [widget]? The dynamic of owing the
Statecommunity for yourforcedlabor is pretty… Statist sounding to me.We can talk about theory until we all feel gooey, but it just doesnt seem to go that way. I know, I know. The meme, it’s never been tried, lol.
People doing bad things IS a facet to freedom. People do bad stuff. Do you think selfish animal nature can be regulated away with enough tax? Maybe, but gosh you’ll need a big
communityState.irmoz@reddthat.com 9 months ago
There are just so many mistaken assumptions to correct before I can even touch this question. Let me make an analogy:
To answer this question, I have to take for granted driving licenses can spontaneously change which country they are from. This is absurd, and I hope you can agree that I don’t need to answer what would happen in that case.
Similarly, it is absurd for you to want to hoard in a communist society. With free access to social goods, they will always be there when you want them. What is the point in hoarding?
That’s not how it works.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Okay, so what happens when I dont work but want the peoples’ stuff? Just as you hid your true colors, you are obfuscating all the forseeable places where force WILL be applied. It will be applied somewhere. Maybe it’ll just be me. Should dissidents like me get the bullet? Why not?!
There is a lot of hand-waving here. Like how great things can be. And all I see is Holodimur and One-child policies. Large spying governments with huge militaries taking land from farmers, always followed by famine. But I know, its all really chill on paper. Slick academics make it sound sexy, sure. And Im sure this time we’ll find those chill sociopaths to put at the reigns of power, lol.
You can try to explain it to me, I guess, but this sounds like the most statist worldview imaginable. You’re using an analogy about drivers licenses to a libertarian. Fuck a drivers license. Its just a regulatory device to attach fines to a person. The identification card is not for you, its for them!
irmoz@reddthat.com 9 months ago
You only work if you want to. No one is going to force you. It is natural for people to want to work because we get bored if we don’t. Communists believe in leaving it up to you when you want to work, and what you want to do, and how and where and why.
I never did that.
Such as where?
Why?
Because there is no reason to shoot you just because you don’t enjoy… checks notes being allowed to work or not work when you feel like it.
Such as when?
How is this a hand wave? I have explained above, and you haven’t even responded. This reply here doesn’t even touch any points I’ve made. You’re just repeating yourself.
So, there are a few points to make here. This video goes into a whole lot of detail and is thoroughly sourced and reasoned in a very balanced manner. The TL;DW is:
The soviet famine was largely the result of natural factors.
It was then worsened considerably by a very slow and negligent response from Stalin.
It affected more than just Ukraine. Kazakhstan and even Russia itself also suffered.
Stalin did send help - but not enough, and it was sent secretly so as not to let the outside world discover the famine.
In summation, it was far from deliberate, but Stalin’s response was cold and insufficient, and cared more about appearances.
All in all - not very damn communist. Because, surely you know, The USSR was not communist? The first clue is it has a damn state. That’s a big clue. I’m generally not a big fan of the USSR and the big fuckin state is one of the reasons.
That’s China right? Yeah also another big fuckin state that I’m not a big fan of. Here’s a fellow communist also hatin’ on China.
Yep, things I’m also not a fan of.
Lol wut? Taking land from farmers? Yeah, with communists it’s generally the opposite. If farms are being taken over, it’s from fat cats hoarding land for private use, to be taken into public hands for the use of all.
Yeah, slick academics also make rocket science sound sexy. And then you follow the theories and oh my goodness, you’ve made a fuckin rocket. But if somewhere along the way, you decide to swap out aluminium for styrofoam, you’ve made an expensive waste of fuckin time. So the think is - if you’re trying to make communism and you make a big fuckin state, you’ve taken a wrong fuckin turn or you were fuckin lying!
WHAT FUCKING REIGNS OF POWER? IT’S COMMUNISM! IF THERE ARE REIGNS OF POWER YOU BUILT IT WRONG!
HOW? A stateless society sounds statist? Are you high? Because I am, and it still sounds out there to me.
Did you… miss the point? It’s a prop. Jesus fucking Christ. Oh my God. You’re so hung up on such a small detail that the wider point was completely missed. Let me try again.
In order to answer this question, I have to take for granted that not only can cakes speak, but they also understand what dates are, and might proposition me.
Yes. So fucking what. It doesn’t fucking matter in the context of the analogy. Now think about the damn point it’s making and respond to it you fucking loon.
HipHoboHarold@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Well if we want to take the idea of forcing to really anything, then you still want a government, which means rules, which means you are also in favor of forcing. You just want a government run by people volunteer their free time.
And if you want to learn some of the more intricate workings of communism, you can do research. But yes, everyone who can work still does work. Just as your system forces you to work or starve and live on the street.
Turns out every side has somethings that get forced and other things that don’t, because the world isn’t exactly a binary as you suggest. Even the concept of left and right has been broken down more into a square called the political compass. And some even argue you could add another axis for social issues. But at the end of the day, communism would allow freedoms in certain areas, such as it being a stateless society, while yours would mean you get to keep the money and not pay taxes.
And then you show at the end you aren’t even here for a conversation. I never said I was a communist, and I mentioned how communism doesn’t have taxes, and yet you still use it as a come back.
Maybe learn something about these theories before you spout off about them.
Dissasterix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Im with you 100% that the existence of a State implies force. I consider myself a Libertarian, as I believe that you can have a good State. But a good State will invariably be a small state. A small state will obviously have less time/resources to do bad stuff. As outlined in the US constitution there are only 3 duties for the federal govt. Yet we find ouselves in a position where half the nation is terrified about what geriatric sits behind what desk. This a symptom of too much top-down unilateral power.
Its also true that I can starve if I do not earn my way. However, employment is voluntary. And I will not be exiled if I want to take time off. Yet its not quite the famines seen by the Ukranians or Mao’s China. Hell, even Deng (Mao’s successor) used Capitalism to turn China into a powerhouse.
irmoz@reddthat.com 9 months ago
Yes, you can choose to starve.